Alejandro G. I?árritu on filming Michael Keaton in his underwear in Times Square, Leo’s ‘Revenant’ reservations and discovering Gael García Bernal

How do you follow up the gargantuan feat of winning Best Director at the Academy Awards for two consecutive years?

For celebrated 59-year-old Birdman (2014) and The Revenant (2015) filmmaker Alejandro G. I?árritu, it involved returning to his homeland and crafting his most personal work yet, Bardo: False Chronicle of a Handful of Truths. “I did it with my eyes closed,” he’ll say.

The surrealistic drama follows a successful documentarian (Daniel Giménez Cacho, clearly a fictionalized stand-in for I?árritu) who travels from Los Angeles to his native Mexico to collect a prestigious award and instead faces a series of mostly unfortunate events. The story plays out in a visually stunning sequence of dreamlike vignettes and flashbacks, often making it difficult for the audience to decipher reality from fiction.

What we do know: All the success and awards that Silverio Gama (Cacho) has reaped haven’t made him feel truly fulfilled, which leads one to wonder whether I?árritu feels the same away about those Oscars... or Golden Globes... or BAFTA Awards... or Directors Guild Awards... or the dozens of other trophies the filmmaker has collected over the past two decades.

“I don’t think that should be misunderstood but I think that should I think it’s a question that the character validly asks himself,” I?árritu tells Yahoo Entertainment. “And I do that myself. And it's not whining or complaining or victimizing. … But we have been taught since we were kids that success is a place to arrive, right? Where things will change and your problems will be gone. And I think that if you keep just looking for one goal and you accomplish it, you are the same miserable guy. If you have issues to deal with or interior work to do, [it doesn’t matter] how many awards, how many houses, how many cars [you have].”

With the release of the self-reflective Bardo, however, the timing felt perfect to engage I?árritu for our career retrospective series Director’s Reel.

The Mexico City native looked back on “winning the lottery” by getting to direct his first film, the international breakout Amores Perros (2000), which established two signature stylistic hallmarks of his work: intersecting storylines and intense plotlines dealing with death, grief and trauma. The latter came to the fore in his next three films, the emotional scorchers 21 Grams (2003), Babel (2006) and Biutiful (2010), earning a filmmaker a reputation for making beautifully captured, critically acclaimed movies that were also depressing as hell.

I?árritu also became a magnet for movie stars. Sean Penn called him after Amores Perros, leading to their collaboration in 21 Grams. Brad Pitt reportedly turned down The Departed so he could work on Babel. Javier Bardem enlisted in Biutiful after winning an Oscar for No Country for Old Men. Michael Keaton parodied his superhero past for Birdman. And Leonardo DiCaprio put himself through the wringer (and ate raw bison meat) for The Revenant.

The highlights from conversation with I?árritu:

On why his first film, Amores Perros (2000), was not his most difficult:

“I will say that the first one was not the toughest. It was very exciting. In Mexico, in that time, only six, seven films were produced a year. So when a filmmaker had a chance to make a film, it was almost like you knew that possibly it will be the last one. So it was an opportunity of [a lifetime]. I was not thinking about a career, or something like that. I thought, ‘Oh my God, I win the lottery. I'm gonna do my film. Who knows what will happen?’ So there was a lot of joy, excitement, obviously a lot of work, and challenges. But I always feel that the most difficult one for filmmakers is the third one [I?árritu’s was Babel]. I think that after the first one, if you get lucky and you don’t screw up your first one, and you have certain success, the second one comes naturally. But I think it's the third one where a lot of filmmakers struggle. Because then you are not new anymore. You are not the hot guy. You are, the next [guy] is coming, and you have to come with something else. Whatever success you have arrived at, the people [are] expecting more. So now you are confronting expectations. And [your own] expectations. But Amores Perros was incredibly exciting to shoot. It was the[same] team that I had worked with for many years before [on short films and commercials]. So it was like a family, like a rock band playing for big concert for the first time. So it was beautiful.

On discovering Gael García Bernal, who made his feature film debut in Amores Perros:

“I was doing [an ad] campaign for a radio station that I used to work at, WFM. I did this little commercial that was like 30 seconds of a guy sitting in his room, kind of sad, while there was a voiceover. It was kind of very conceptual campaign. And I saw the eyes of this kid, and I said, ‘Wow.’… He has these almost purple eyes. And something like a wolf’s face. I loved what he transmitted with his eyes. And I said, ‘If I do a film once, I will take him.’ And three years later I was casting [Amores Perros] and I contacted him. He was studying in London. And then he came and he did it, and I was not wrong. I put the camera on him and I said, ‘This guy really transmits something very beautiful.’”

On the surprising phone call he received from Sean Penn — and making the painful transition to English-language filmmaking with American movie stars in 21 Grams (2003):

“It was a great opportunity. Challenging. Sean Penn loved Amores Perros. I was in San Miguel in Mexico. Suddenly my phone rings. ‘Hi, this is Sean.’ ‘Sean who?’ ‘Sean Penn.’ I thought that it was a joke. He just called me to say how much he loved the movie. He didn’t know me, I didn’t know him, but he just called very generally to say, ‘I love the film, blah, blah, blah. I hope that we can work together.’ And I said, ‘Wow. Sean Penn has just called me and he would love to work with me.’ And then I came to [Los Angeles] for some reasons, and then we became friends and we connect as people, and we became very good friends. So then when I was developing 21 Grams thing, I thought about him because he was perfect. And that was a great opportunity to work with him.

“The challenge was for me to understand the way you work in United States with unions and restrictions and orders and all, that kind of thing. And the language. My English is not as good. And that time it was super bad, so it was limited. … It was so difficult for me that I had to get [throat surgery] on one of my vocal cords. Because when you speak English, you change the movement [of your throat]. So one of my vocal cords got completely hurt. I had to have surgery [immediately after filming] because I was talking 24 hours a day… and using my throat a different way.”

On working with both Hollywood heavyweights like Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett as well as non-professional actors in Babel (2006):

“The challenge of that film was that it was kind of the last of this structured narrative that I was exploring in time and space. In this case, it was four stories of characters that will never meet, that will never cross, that will never be physically together or geographically together. And each of [their lives will change] forever, even when they haven't even talked, or they don't know [each other] exist. So it was a difficult kind of a structure to make it blend, to connect it emotionally, tonally, believably. And I wanted that American couple to be somebody that you feel kind of familiar with, suddenly in the middle of this kind of tragic event in the middle of nowhere [Blanchett’s tourist is shot by a Moroccan boy testing a rifle], where I found an amazing opportunity to [use] to real and non-actors, people that make it very, very raw.

“I think Brad is such a nice guy. He really works a lot. It was a difficult role. It was very dramatic, very intense, because he's dealing with somebody that is dying the whole story. It's very intense work. And I was shooting with [a handheld camera and doing] a lot of takes. So it was physically demanding and emotionally, too. And Cate is incredible professional. She was at that level, and Brad has to just go to that level. But he was always so, so nice, so gentle. … I really appreciate the way he handled himself as a human with the crew. He’s a very sweet guy. That’s how I remember him.”

On how he developed a reputation for making gruelingly depressing films following Amores Perros, 21 Grams and Babel:

“It reflected an intense time in my life, the things that you are dealing with, the things that you are going through. So in a way, when you make a film, you navigate through things that you cannot escape. It shows who you are, where you are. Wanted or not, you express your personality. Even every choice that you make, in casting or in cameras, or in tone, or in space and silences and music. Everything speaks about where you are, who you are. And it projects that. So yeah, it was what it was going on. And then I did Biutiful, which too was very, super heavy. I think that was maybe the [darkest].”

On what took him to Spain for Biutiful (2010):

“I started writing this story based on some feeling that I have about exploring immigration in Europe, because I saw a lot of these things happening [where] these African people were living in the street in these incredible rich countries. ... And there’s huge Chinese colony in Barcelona, and nobody talks about it. ... So I was very interested to go into that and explore immigration thing. And I started writing this story. And then it was a great chance for me and my family to be living in Barcelona. I wanted to take a break from the United States. And I thought, ‘OK, let’s see if we can go to Spain and have this adventure together. So it was just an exploration.”

On his future Best Picture winner Birdman (2014) being rejected by every studio, and shooting it in only 19 days:

“It was difficult to raise money. Nobody wanted to give me money. Nobody really believed that you can do a comedy with no editing, because obviously comedy is mostly done in editing. … And at that time, Michael Keaton had not been working in a long time. And it was just the music with drums. So when I pitched that to everybody, every studio. … they [turned me down]. It took me two years. Yeah. And then the money that I raised with Fox Searchlight, it was very reduced. They just have this amount of money. So I [brought investors] together with them, and we arrived at a number that just allowed me to do it and shoot that film in 19 days. So I had less than four weeks to shoot that film. And to approach a film that is that very complex, I had to find a new way to work. Renting a space, blocking every single scene. … I needed to be clear in everything. So we rehearsed, we measured every step, and then we built the set. And we have only five days in the St. James Theatre in New York. So the challenge for me to shoot a film in 19 days seemed at that time, impossible. But I did it. So I changed my whole dynamic of work. … So it was super refreshing. And for the first time in my life, I suddenly recognized myself laughing and cracking in the set. I mean, I was ruining takes because I couldn’t stop laughing at Michael and [Edward Norton]. I was enjoying the shooting so much. I think it was one of the few times that I have been enjoying [a production] and laughing on the set so much. … That was the start of something new for me.”

On shooting Michael Keaton’s famous jaunt through Times Square in his underwear:

“It was such a funny thing because we didn’t have money for extras at all. And we cannot control Times Square. And we didn’t want to shoot it when there’s [no one there at 2 in the morning]. That will be boring. Yeah. And literally two weeks before [we shot], I was walking to lunch on a Saturday and I saw this band of these kids, they were super cool, just dancing and drumming, and everybody was around them. And I said, ‘That’s the key!’ The only way to distract people is to bring a band like this that are very attractive and very fun. Let’s put it outside the theater in Times Square, so everybody will be looking to them while we [film Keaton]. And it was exactly right. It was like we put out honey for the bees. We did it in three takes, actually. [I thought] it would be impossible, Michael, in his underwear, there will be people, taking video and everything, looking to the cameras. It will be a disaster. But thanks to this band. We hired them. It was an experiment. We didn’t know if it will work or not, and it worked. ... We did a trick.”

On Leonardo DiCaprio initially resisting The Revenant (2015), the movie that would finally win the actor an Oscar:

“It was very difficult for Leo to decide to do this film, super difficult. He was really, really hesitating about many things. He knew the physical kind of challenge that it would be, the commitment to be living in the forest for six months in the cold. … It was a long, strong physical commitment. So it was not easy. But once he committed, it was amazing. And for me, it was a great collaboration. He understood perfectly the character, and he was a great collaborator in every sense. He’s a filmmaker. He understands films, not only from an actor's point of view, but he has been doing so many films with such a great directors that he understands the whole thing. It is great to have an actor that has that understanding.

“He’s a very generous. He has a lot of empathy for people, and he really wants people to have a good time. So he’s one of those guys that is worry about you and about you and about you. All the time he is trying to make people feel happy. He gives a lot of himself. And he does that in his work, too. You have enough takes and he says, ‘I can give you another one. Let’s do another.’ He’s a guy that is always looking for the top.”

Bardo premieres Friday on Netflix.

Watch the trailer: