Cillian Murphy Talks ‘Small Things Like These’ & What He’s Learned As A Producer: “Challenge Everything & Be True To Your Instinct”
Small Things Like These, starring and produced by Cillian Murphy, opens today in the UK and Ireland before bowing November 8 in the U.S. The Tim Mielants-directed drama opened the Berlin Film Festival in February to great acclaim, with Emily Watson’s turn as a formidable nun scooping the Silver Bear for Best Supporting Actress.
In the 1985-set film, Murphy stars as Bill Furlong, a coal merchant and devoted father who discovers disturbing secrets kept by the local convent — and uncovers truths of his own — forcing him to confront his past and the complicit silence of a small Irish town controlled by the Catholic Church.
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This is the first feature production from Murphy and his recently minted Big Things Films banner, which he runs alongside partner Alan Moloney. It’s a film close to the Oscar winner’s heart with the source material being a best-selling novel by Claire Keegan that was adapted by longtime collaborator Enda Walsh. Eileen Walsh, Michelle Fairley and Zara Devlin also star.
Small Things Like These was financed by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck’s Artists Equity, a collaboration forged when Murphy and Damon were making Christopher Nolan’s Best Picture Oscar winner Oppenheimer. It is releasing via Lionsgate in the UK and Ireland with the U.S. alongside Roadside Attractions.
Since Small Things Like These, Murphy has wrapped a starring role in Steve, which he also produces under Big Things Films and which Netflix is backing. He is shooting and executive producing the Peaky Blinders movie, which Netflix greenlighted during the summer.
I recently spoke with Murphy about the journey of Small Things, as well as lessons learned now that he’s produced his first two features.
(This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.)
DEADLINE: We spoke before the Small Things world premiere in Berlin, and I know you were very proud to have that opening-night slot, which was the first-ever for an Irish movie. All the while, you were still involved in the Oppenheimer awards run; what was your reaction when Emily won for her role in Small Things at Berlin?
CILLIAN MURPHY: We were just flying around the place like crazy, but I was just so thrilled for her. That’s really her only scene in the movie, but it just kind of colors the whole film and it’s so powerful; it’s the scene that people talk about. It’s the major confrontation of the movie… and the brilliant thing, I think, about the writing in that scene is that they don’t talk about anything, they’re just talking in banalities. It’s all about the subtext and what’s not spoken, and the silence and all of that stuff. And it’s so bloody powerful because of what Emily does in that scene.
DEADLINE: You were juggling a number of things in the early part of this year, and now this movie, which is your first role as a feature producer, is finally coming out. What’s your perspective on it now?
MURPHY: It was just nice to come back and talk about it again, you know? And it was nice the fact that we did screen it in Berlin, and it did have an audience. And I’m thrilled that Lionsgate are releasing it, and that they’re putting it out in America, and it’s a proper, big release. I don’t think a film is finished until it’s actually released, until the audiences are in the cinema watching it. So I’m really, really excited for audiences to sit down. And the reaction here from the press has been really, really strong. So we’re all thrilled.
DEADLINE: You have a relationship with Netflix via Peaky Blinders and your next project, Steve. What is the significance of a theatrical release on this film? Why was that important?
MURPHY: It would always be my preference that a film is released theatrically, that will always remain kind of the first preference. I mean, it can’t always be the case. We’re all aware of the landscape at present, but I think particularly for a film like this — because it is gentle in its pacing, you need to stick with it — I think when you’re in a dark space with a load of strangers, it will draw you in. And we’ve seen that when we’ve tested it, and we saw that in Berlin. It responds very well to a load of people in a room watching it, because it’s quite an interior film, as you know. And the characters aren’t very verbose, so you need to sit with it, and then it pays off. I think it’s more suited to theatrical than to streaming.
DEADLINE: I know you don’t like to associate a message to your work, but given the subject matter — though it’s an Irish story, there is a universality to it — do you think it will spark conversation?
MURPHY: I hope so. I hope people will talk about it. And I don’t know if I said this to you before, but the book and the film have this kind of quite unusual, quite radical structure in that the story only starts when the book ends, when the film ends, you know what I mean? Because, like, what the hell happens when we go to black? What happens after that? And I think everyone’s gonna have a different point of view. Everyone’s gonna have a different perspective. Some people will be optimistic, some people will be pessimistic, but it should keep people engaged well after the credits have rolled, and I love stories like that.
DEADLINE: One thing you’ve said before was about the irony of the book being about a Christian man trying to do a Christian act in a dysfunctionally Christian society, and that maybe that’s easier to absorb in film than some kind of report…
MURPHY: I think that’s probably wherein the universality lies, because I think it’s still the case that we need people to stand up and say what everybody’s thinking in whatever forum that might be, or whatever context that might be. I think we still need people to do that. For example, I was reading recently about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Canada. That report they did, and it was like 25,000 Indigenous kids died in residential care … there’s all these mass graves found. It’s the same story. So to say that it’s peculiar to Ireland is incorrect. The same story, same things have been uncovered in Belgium, where Tim [Mielants] is from. It exists. And there’s lots of different parallels you can draw with stuff that’s happening politically today. But again, I don’t want to be too prescriptive about it. I just want people to take what they will. And people do, people come back with lots of different reactions or responses. They’re very personal.
DEADLINE: Now that you’ve got this one coming out, and have wrapped filming on Steve — which is the second feature you’ve produced and that Big Things has produced — what’s the biggest thing you’ve learned as a producer?,
MURPHY: I think that you have to never really be satisfied, you know? And I think it’s always important to challenge everything. For me creatively, it’s always important to challenge everything and to push back on things, and to really be true to your instinct and remember why you wanted to make the project in the first place. You know, if people start saying, “Well, I don’t know if we can achieve this” or “We’re gonna have to cut here,” I think you just have to keep pushing through.
For me, it’s very much the creative side. Alan is much more the business side of things, and does the heavy lifting there. But for me it’s really being strong on the vision that you had initially when you sat down and said, “Why don’t we do this?,” because I think over the course of taking a film from an idea to a script to pre-production to production to post to releasing, it can sometimes get diluted, and then it becomes either one thing or the other. And then I think that’s neither. That’s not very satisfying. At least take a big swing is my feeling. You know, at least go and try and achieve the idea that made you all very excited like six months ago. It should still be the same thing that’s driving the process. So that’s been the thing that I’ve tried to hold on to.
DEADLINE: Do you feel like you achieved what you set out to do so far?
MURPHY: Well, I certainly feel like we’ve made the film that we wanted to make with Small Things. I can say that with complete conviction, and that’s down to the support we got from Artists Equity and now from Lionsgate. People have really believed in the vision, and we’re just at the beginning of it with with Steve, but Netflix have been so brilliant and so supportive. And, you know, it’s not the obvious choice for Netflix, in my opinion, but they were very brave with it, and they’ve really gone with the vision.
DEADLINE: How is Big Things doing since you officially launched? Are you being super solicited? And how important is Small Things to Big Things?
MURPHY: It’s the first film for the production company, so it means a great deal. It’s a beloved book, so it means a great deal. We’re really excited to put it out and see what the audience think. There’s lots of stuff coming in, and we have Steve, but I don’t think we’re going to rush into things. I think we want to keep the quality level high, as high as we can. And, you know, for me, I just really want the work to have a point of view.
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