CL Smooth keeps it real about Pete Rock, Hip Hop culture shifting, and his brotherhood with DMX
On this week’s episode of “Drink Champs,” N.O.R.E. and DJ EFN were joined by revered rapper CL Smooth.
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Coming up in Mount Vernon, New York, CL Smooth met Pete Rock in high school and together, they began pursuing what would become a legendary run in Hip Hop. Rock ascended as the duo’s premier beat-maker, while CL stood tall as the group’s voice and MC. Under the tutelage of established acts like Heavy D & The Boyz, Rock and Smooth earned their own record deal via Elektra, released a couple of EPs, and dropped their debut album, Mecca and the Soul Brother, which was led by well-received singles like “They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.).”
Over the next couple of years, the dynamic pairing worked their way up on a commercial level with collaborations like “Down with the King” alongside Run-DMC, appeared on soundtracks for Black movie staples such as Menace II Society, and went on to release their sophomore album, The Main Ingredient, by 1994. The group started to grow apart toward the latter half of that decade, but CL still popped out with a guest feature run that linked him with AZ and Raekwon, on top of releasing his two solo projects, American Me and The Outsider.
These days, he releases music more sporadically but announced that he’s working on a collaborative project called The Odd Couple with Peter Gunz that will feature production from beatsmiths like Large Professor, Statik Selektah and Termanology. Here, the legend speaks about his upcoming effort, as well as the highs and lows of his coveted career. Nine takeaways from the conversation can be found below and watch the full episode here.
1. On his early contributions to music
CL Smooth is credited by many as being a trailblazer. And on that topic, he recalled one of his inaugural power moves in Hip Hop. “My first song was Johnny Gill ‘Rub You the Right Way,’ the remix,” he said. “That was the first official remix of Hip Hop being on a record, remixed on the radio. I was the first.” From there, collaboration became key, as he (and Pete Rock) went on to work with other coveted acts such as Run-DMC on "Down with the King,” a song that revived the trio’s career.
2. On “They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)”
Smooth and Rock’s sonic dedication to Troy “Trouble T Roy” Dixon is revered by many rap fans as an undisputed classic. CL talked about his mindset when creating the tribute for his fallen friend. “I think at the time, I wanted to contribute something that was authentic, that wasn't an image that I'm trying to project. But I wanted to give them an inside, close feel of what the plight of a Black family is like with nothing on it but an anthem. It’s a song that a lot of people thought wasn't real. But every part of the song is real,” he explained. When N.O.R.E. asked if a then-21-year-old CL knew that he was creating a classic, the seasoned MC responded, “I didn't know, but I knew I was writing something special because I hadn’t heard it from nobody.”
3. On fighting T Roy
Before the fame and in an attempt to defend his cousin, CL Smooth got in a life-changing fight with Heavy D & The Boyz dancer T Roy. “That was a heavy fight in the town and we became best friends [after],” he remembered. Post-altercation, CL became aligned with Heavy D’s crew and started to walk into his purpose as an artist. Looking back, he added, “When we had that fight, he transferred all of his riches over to me… That one fight changed my life, and it put me on a path to work with Eddie F., to work with Heavy D, to work with Pete Rock, to work with Al. B Sure!, to work with Jeff Redd... I was a nobody until I fought him,” he said. “He fought a nobody and made him somebody.”
4. On Heavy D’s impact
CL Smooth had nothing but high praise for the late Heavy D. He spoke about the artist’s impact and contributions to the music industry at large. “We talking about a class act. We talking about somebody who was almost 300 pounds, [and] he knows how to dress immaculately, holds himself in high regard, knows how to conduct himself. And everybody on the planet's momma loves Heavy D,” he expressed. “Heav was beyond his years in being an artist and teaching you how to dress, and talk, and articulate, and conduct yourself. Because you wanted what he had.”
5. On getting back together with Pete Rock
Though they came up in the game with one another, CL Smooth and Pete Rock have been at odds for almost a decade now. Months after Rock explained their falling out on “Drink Champs,” CL shared his thoughts on why things got tricky. “When we came up together, maybe other business pulled him in other directions and pulled me in other directions,” he said. “And on the bonus clip, if you got my producer producing other artists while my s**t is working, then I'm competing against me. And my man is helping.”
On the subject of reuniting with his former collaborator, CL said, “I think we could if you keep it business.” He continued, “I'm ready for anything that's gonna close that chapter, that's gonna take it off of this question mark and put it on a closure.” But why now? CL expressed, “I understand that the fans gave us a lot. We owe them.”
6. On his brotherhood with DMX
The origin point of CL and DMX’s relationship was beyond music and their hometown. Even their pets were related. “DMX, that was my brother. That was my OG… So, I have a fond, sentimental value for him personally,” the veteran lyricist began. “We go into the dogs. Like, my dog and his dog were brothers. They don't know about that. Because there's certain things that he has that I don't bring out. And there's certain things that I have that he doesn't bring out. But we have things in common.”
7. On Fatman Scoop’s death
Creating a shockwave that rippled through Black culture, esteemed artist and hypeman Fatman Scoop lost his life in late August after collapsing mid-performance in Hamden, Connecticut. Weeks later, CL reacted with his perspective on the tragic moment. “To me, I don't know if my mind is morbid, but that's how I wanna go out. Do you know how many people die in the street around strangers, digging in their pockets, taking off their jewelry? He did it in heaven with everybody loving him. He did it around all his supporters, people who cared about him. He didn't die on the sidewalk. He didn't die in his house where nobody knew for days. He died around people who loved him. I kinda want that shot too,” he said.
8. On how Hip Hop culture has shifted
A lot of things have changed since Hip Hop was born over 50 years ago. According to the emcee, not all change has been for the better. “There's so much violence in this culture now,” he noted. “I thought we were doing it to get out. You got the money and you run in.” He expounded, “The music predicates that you do that. What kinda music is that? And everything sounds the same. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill… So, when you say you a rapper now, what do you mean? That's like saying I go to Iraq and I shoot people. You a soldier. You getting ready to die.” With Pop Smoke in mind, he went on, “When you took Pop Smoke, you took the best s**t ever. That was that Tupac s**t… Why are you killing them? Aren't they your s**t? Aren't they our s**t?”
9. On his relationship with Funkmaster Flex
As a longstanding critic of the culture, the reception of Funkmaster Flex can vary depending on who’s asked, said CL Smooth. But the rapper sees the famed radio host in a bright light. “I don't feel what other people feel for him. See, it's his job to smash you. But he's my brother,” he said. “I like the man he's become. I like the man he is. And when you disagree with him, do you know you can always sit down with him and talk to him? Even if y'all got super duper hectic, heavy, hot beef, he can talk… He's a loving brother and those who don't understand him because he's kinda harsh, you gotta get to understand because it's not what he says, it's the way he says it.”
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