Debbie Allen on Going Gangster in ‘Fight Night’ and Why She Needed to Be Slapped in ‘Grey’s Anatomy’
[This story contains spoilers from the penultimate seventh episode of Fight Night: The Million Dollar Heist.]
From the stage to the big and small screens and in-between, Debbie Allen does it all. She’s a dancer, singer, actress, choreographer, producer and director whose had her own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for over 30 years. She’s won Emmys, Tonys and a Golden Globe. For over 20 years, she’s helped train the future through her namesake Debbie Allen Dance Academy. If there is work to be done, she rolls up her sleeves and she does it.
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Because Allen is so multifaceted, you can never be sure when, where and how she will show up. This time, she showed up in the final minutes of the penultimate episode of Peacock’s star-studded, Black gangster-fueled, hit series Fight Night: The Million Dollar Heist. From Will Packer and Kevin Hart, the series also stars Hart, along with Terrence Howard, Taraji P. Henson, Don Cheadle and Samuel L. Jackson.
“I hear my beautiful boy is headed south again,” said her voice, as a rack of clothes rolled by as a de facto curtain opener for Allen’s surprise cameo as the mother to Cadillac Richie (Howard). The silky-haired Cadillac adores his mother. As his minion approached her to put on a white fur, he intervened, “Ah, ah, don’t nobody touch my mama.” Suddenly, the series’ big questions were answered surrounding the post-Muhammad Ali fight afterparty — where the nation’s top Black mafia bosses were all forced to strip down to their underwear in an Atlanta basement and robbed of their jewels. “You honor your father’s legacy and put that licorice-chewing motherfucker where he belongs,” says Allen, leaving no confusion as to why Cadillac has it in for ruthless Black New York mob boss Frank Moten, played by Jackson.
The role is a great complement to the documentary King of Kings: Chasing Edward Jones, which Allen executive produces with good friend Quincy Jones, and from Paris director Harriet Marin Jones about her grandfather, Edward Jones. The sophisticated Chicago policy king, along with his two brothers, became wealthy in the 1930s and ’40s leading the illegal practice that preceded the lottery. On the heels of a successful festival circuit run, capped by weeklong Oscar-qualifying theatrical runs in Los Angeles and Chicago, King of Kings, acquired by Byron Allen’s digital film distribution wing Freestyle Digital Media, will be available to rent or own Nov. 19.
Meanwhile, on her veteran series Grey’s Anatomy, the resurgence of Dr. Catherine Fox’s health problems has fans wondering if the 21st season of Shonda Rhimes’ flagship ABC drama will be her last. If that were so, it would mark the end of an incredible character arc from Allen who joined the historic series back in 2012 as the renowned urologist who is also the founder of the Catherine Fox Foundation, owner of Grey Sloan Memorial. On top of that, she’s the mother of Jesse Williams’ Dr. Jackson Avery and wife of Dr. Richard Webber (James Pickens Jr). Dr. Fox is easily Grey’s Anatomy resident villain, always in the middle of drama — and this season, it’s already enough to make sensible adults want to slap her.
The Hollywood Reporter caught up with the legend to chat about her cameo in Fight Night, signing up to executive produce King of Kings and what the future has in store for Catherine, Meredith (Ellen Pompeo) and Grey’s Anatomy itself.
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How did your cameo in Fight Night come about?
Well, Terrence Howard called me, and then I got a call from my agent and casting people saying that they wanted me to come and be in Will Packer’s new limited series and be Terrence’s gangster mama. I said, “Okay, let me do it.” I love it. I’ve been kind of badass on Grey’s Anatomy for the last year, so it was kind in line for me to do it.
After you played a “gangster mama,” how did you then become involved in King of Kings?
I did this because I met Harriet Marin [Jones] through [award-winning cinematographer and acclaimed photographer] Johnny Simmons, who’s my dear friend, and she was in the beginnings of getting this documentary done. She was halfway through it almost and when I heard the story. I listened to her, and I knew Quincy was involved, and I love him. We’ve worked together before in the past; we did In the House together years ago with LL Cool J and many, many, many things. He’s on the board of my [Debbie Allen] Dance Academy. I said: Wow, I need to lend whatever resources and skill set I have to helping her get this film done and out there.
Were you surprised to learn that Edward Jones. was also a Howard University alum like you?
I was happy to know that we had a direct connection in that way. But [him being a college graduate] speaks about the times. In those days and times, what were the real career options for Black men to rise to that kind of monetary success? There wasn’t much. And coming out of the South, being chased by the Klan, being chased by the mob, the government and the Nazis, that sums up the landscape in which this story takes place. So [his success] is pretty awesome.
Let’s talk Grey’s Anatomy, and that premiere slap scene! How did they broach the slap to you?
Well, it was my idea. How about that? It was totally my idea. I worked so closely with our showrunner, Meg Marinis. She is fantastic. And we were kind of picking up where we left off last season, where I had fired everybody. I was on one. And, so, she said, “Well, I was thinking of her having this inspiring speech.” I said, “Girl, don’t nobody want to hear inspiration right now. Catherine needs to be slapped. She has acted so badly.” And she hesitated because nobody wants to slap me. I said, “This is a great way for us to start the season, because everybody will be so curious about what’s the fallout of that. How does that happen? What’s next?” It was really fun shooting and Miss Chandra Wilson also did not want to slap me. She was like, “I’m not slapping you, Debbie Allen” … It’s become a really big kind of viral thing now. I guess it’s a meme right now.
With your résumé and stardom, how do you maintain that ability to still do what’s best for the character?
It’s that real artistic temperament. The artistry of being an actor and a dancer is that you do what is needed. I remember when I did George Faison’s ballet called Slaves and, to portray our ancestors, he wanted us to be bare-breasted. I had never been bare breasted on stage, but I didn’t hesitate to do it because I knew I was portraying our history, how we were seen, and what happened to us. Real actors are not thinking about themselves. They’re thinking, how can I bring this character to life in its truest form? We have a few actors that really know that: Gary Oldman knows that. Denzel Washington knows that. Phylicia Rashad knows it. Viola Davis knows it. There’s a plethora of really great actors out there that will go for it and do what is needed.
Meg, your showrunner, recently described Catherine as a “vulnerable villain” to THR. What does that mean to you? Do you see her as a vulnerable villain?
Yes, because in her heart of hearts, she cares about the hospital and its legacy. And she cares about the foundation. She cares about women. And she cares about science. But she wants things to be done with integrity. She’s vulnerable, she’s a cancer patient currently. You can be as badass as you want to, but there are some things that knock you down a little bit, and cancer could be one of them, that’s for sure. But she is not sharing that. She’s strong in her will to try to find her way through living with cancer and not bringing her family to the point of suffering with her. There’s this vulnerability in that. You have compassion for this character. You kind of love her for her strength.
How many more seasons does Catherine have?
Well, let’s ask ABC how many more seasons does Grey’s Anatomy have? I’ve become part of the DNA of this incredible series. I’ve been there for 12 years. It’s quite a feat to be on any show for 10 years. And this is the 21st season of Grey’s Anatomy. So Shonda Rhimes has left a footprint that continues to expand and reverberate around the world. Everywhere I go, and I’m not even a series regular, I get stopped. People stop me in airports, airplanes, in the bathroom. They want to take pictures. (Laughs) That’s kind of funny, in the bathroom, they want to take pictures. We’re doing it for the people. So it’s nice when they respond to you. I appreciate that.
Ellen Pompeo had scaled back, but is now more visible on camera again. In her absence, the show was able to solidify the interns as part of the ensemble. How has Grey’s been able to keep breathing new life 20+ seasons in?
As you see by the stats, we’re more popular than ever. I believe we’re one of the biggest footprints on anything streaming, anywhere. There were like a billion views. I couldn’t even begin to imagine that. I think because the characters we present on Grey’s Anatomy are real people dealing with real situations that everyone relates to in their lives. We did a whole year where COVID was in every episode — how we were living, breathing, dying and supporting each other through, which is what the world was going through. We’re not far removed from what is happening in the world. That’s part of our power.
If Ellen decided to end her role as Meredith, could Grey’s Anatomy continue?
Well, that’s a good question that we don’t have to answer right now, because she’s still there. Number one is right there with us. I’m going to see her. I talk to her all the time. Even when she’s not there on camera, I see her because she comes in to do her voice overs. This is part of her life and her legacy, too. So I don’t think we have to answer that question, how about that? (Laughs)
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Grey’s Anatomy airs Thursdays at 10 p.m. ET on ABC, streaming next day on Hulu; King of Kings is available digitally Nov. 19; and Fight Night releases its finale Oct. 10 on Peacock.
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