What Does the Next 10 Years of ‘Happy Sad Confused’ Look Like? Josh Horowitz Is Eyeing an International Expansion
Lauded journalist, host, and moderator Josh Horowitz is a staple among the Hollywood circuit in part thanks to his popular podcast “Happy Sad Confused.” Horowitz, who began his career as a producer and talent booker, parlayed his expertise and ease with filmmakers into his own standalone podcast back in 2014. Its format pivoted during the pandemic to include a video component on YouTube (where he has amassed more than 111K subscribers), and once again took another shape as Horowitz began hosting live podcast recordings with a partnership at the 92nd St Y in New York City.
Horowitz has interviewed notoriously private, or rather, anti-podcast stars such as Warren Beatty, Al Pacino, and Vin Diesel, with Christian Bale, Cillian Murphy, Cate Blanchett, Kate Winslet, and Henry Cavill appearing on multiple episodes. Some of Horowitz’s personal heroes like George Miller, Christopher Nolan, Quentin Tarantino, Guillermo del Toro, Steven Soderbergh, Denis Villeneuve, and Jordan Peele were also guests on “Happy Sad Confused,” which has quickly become the go-to hub for all-things pop culture.
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Did Horowitz ask Saoirse Ronan about her rumored Marvel debut and did Ronan confirm it? Yes. Has Horowitz called out Andrew Garfield for being shady about returning for “Spider-Man: No Way Home”? Of course. And Horowitz even has reached the level of being a Tom Cruise confidante — despite having not received one of Cruise’s now-infamous coconut cakes.
Plus, Horowitz will be speaking with Robert Zemeckis, Tom Hanks, Paul Mescal, Michael Fassbender, and more stars within the next few days. Such is the life of a celebrity podcast journalist.
In honor of the 10th anniversary of “Happy Sad Confused,” Horowitz revisits his most surprising moments on the podcast with IndieWire, shared his favorite films of 2024, and teased what’s next for his self-made empire.
The following interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
IndieWire: Your moderated discussion with the cast of “Gladiator II” a few days ago was fantastic. What are some of the films that you have really loved this year?
Josh Horowitz: I’m still finishing catching up on everything but my favorites I guess would be “Anora,” and I am obsessed with “Conclave,” which was just like pure popcorn fun. I was just smiling during that movie from end to end. It’s just a super entertaining flick. I also thought “Emilia Pérez” was really impressive. Zoe Salda?a was fantastic in that. In the blockbuster realm, I’m a big fan of what Denis [Villeneuve] has done with the “Dune” films. I’d love to see Austin Butler get a campaign for Best Supporting Actor. I thought he just about stole that movie, and it was so cool to see him follow up a leading man heartthrob role with that.
I thought “Gladiator II” was kind of the best possible version of what that movie could be. Talk about an impossible movie to follow up without like an iconic performance like Russell Crowe’s. How do you do that? And yet somehow they made a great movie that stands on its own. It’s a good mix this year. When someone like [“Anora” writer/director] Sean Baker suddenly finds himself as like a potential awards candidate, that’s always interesting.
This year is also the 30th anniversary of “Pulp Fiction,” and I know that John Travolta was your first on-air interview back at MTV before you started the podcast. Would you ever want to have a Travolta reunion on “Happy Sad Confused”?
[Back at MTV] I started with the critically acclaimed “Wild Hogs.” I was thrust into an on-camera interview because [anchor] Kurt Loder couldn’t make it. I think he was sick that day, and MTV asked me to fill in for him and I found myself in very close proximity with Travolta, an icon, and he was in a “Wild Hogs” leather jacket. That maybe inoculated me against being scared of any situation, because if you can hang with an icon like John Travolta with no notice, maybe you can hang with anybody.
He actually hasn’t ever been on the podcast. He has eluded me. It’s funny because people always ask me who I haven’t had on. Of course, he would be fantastic. I’m adding him to my list.
Who else is on that list?
David Fincher is always basically the top for me. I’m a ginormous fan and obsessive and I’ve had the opportunity to interview him a couple times over the years. I moderated the “Mindhunter” event and I find him to be so acerbic and funny and smart and interesting. I’m desperate to get him on at some point.
Nicolas Cage is on the list for long-form. He really hasn’t done much in terms of podcasts, for whatever reason, I think he’s been adverse to it. But I’ve certainly interviewed him over the years, just never going into the deep dive career stuff. He is an actor that always takes big swings.
Denzel Washington, George Clooney, Steven Spielberg … I’ve been chasing Robert Downey Jr. for a bunch of years and I feel like I’m getting close, maybe we’ll get there soon. Robert, if you’re reading this…
How do you curate guests and do you still do your own bookings?
My career began first as a producer/booker for different shows, so I’ve never stopped booking and I’ve never wanted to relinquish that. I mean, MTV books their own stuff and will ask me if I’m interested in folks, but I book my own podcast and I have the relationships with the talent, the publicists, the studio, publicists, the personal publicists, etc. That has accumulated over doing this work for over two decades.
It’s not really work to me. This is just how I exist at this point. It’s like constantly looking at release calendars, constantly checking in with all the studios and streamers and reps and putting in all the requests for the people that I dream of talking to and, you know, some of it comes through and some of it doesn’t. I’m no different than anybody else, it’s just that I think because I’ve stuck around long enough and I’ve engendered, I think, some trust hopefully that I get way more yes’s than I used to back in the day. But I still get plenty of no’s. Everybody does and that’s OK. There’s plenty of interesting folks to talk to, thankfully.
How big is the “Happy Sad Confused” team?
I have a couple of editors that work on short-form and long-form content. The short-form stuff is for YouTube and Instagram, etc. To be honest, other than that, there’s no producer, there isn’t a prepper, there isn’t a researcher. You’re talking to him. I wear all those hats. Because I come from a producing background and because I know what I want to ask, I do a lot of it myself. I think that’s why it feels, hopefully, very uniquely me.
That’s amazing that you can retain that level of creative control across a decade for the podcast.
It’s just bearable enough so I don’t have a mental breakdown. I now often do two episodes a week. I’m very lucky; I have a lot of opportunities to talk to folks who I’m desperate to talk with and it’s like, how do I say no? But I’m kind of at maximum bandwidth right now. It is just like part of my DNA now to be constantly consuming movies and TV and then riffing on it and figuring out who I want to talk to. There’s no on-off. I work this “job” which is my life 24-7. This is just who I am.
I know that you’ve spoken about your interview technique previously about approaching these celebrities like they’re already your friends or family. How much was that a preset tone because of your pre-existing relationships with some of the guests, and how much is cultivated on-camera?
I think it’s always the goal for me to break down the barriers between celebrity and interviewer, and to get as close to a human conversation in this somewhat artificial context as possible. The difference now is, yes, I do have a long history of doing this so I do have a built-in relationship and past with many of the folks I talk to, which serves me well and is invaluable. And I’m like, again, so lucky because now with a lot of these folks I talk to, I can move past all the awkward shit and just get right to the stuff I want to talk to them about because they already trust me. They know that they can go to places with me and I’m not out to make them look bad. I’m simply out there to have fun, smart conversations.
But that’s always been the case, even when I didn’t know anybody, like when I started MTV and when I started the podcast. That was the only way I knew how to do it. It wasn’t calculated, like, “I’m going to be so down to Earth and raw.” I just can’t not do that because the alternative would be too difficult for me. I learned that early on that I can’t be like a polished, “Entertainment Tonight” reporter. That’s not my skill set. I’m not host-y. It’s not who I am. I think what I do bring to the table is knowledge and spontaneity, and that’s where I focus my efforts.
What have been some of the most spontaneous moments with guests across the entirety of the podcast?
The honest answer is that every conversation is like that with spontaneous, crazy stuff. I mean, this isn’t the best example, but it just comes to mind because it’s something that kind of went viral. People talk a lot about my conversation with Andrew Garfield from a couple of years back [in 2021] when he was promoting “Tick Tick Boom” at the time.
And the “Spider-Man” rumors were around and nothing was confirmed that he was going be in “Spider-Man: No Way Home.” But when I brought up the word “Spider-Man” before I even got a question out, he offered this insanely enthusiastic denial being in the films. And I think what I’m hopefully able to do is be in the moment and not let a strange interaction just lie and to build upon it. So for instance, some folks might have left his simple denial and moved on to the next subject. But I remember in that moment being like, “That’s a really extreme and strange response” and continuing the conversation.
Journalists often talk about how important the follow-up is and it’s all about listening and being in the moment for me and not reading from a list of questions because if you’re so focused on the six points you need to hit, then you’re not going get the great stuff, the juicy stuff.
Invariably, the most interesting stuff folks talk about is in the follow-up, is in me calling them out and saying, “What did you just say? Can can you say more on that because that doesn’t make any sense to me?” I think a lot of folks get starstruck and justifiably so, I get it, and they are unable to pierce the veil and go deeper and let whatever crazy answer comes out of a filmmaker or celebrity’s mouth be at face value. And I think what I’m hopefully able to do is say if somebody says something crazy, I will say that’s crazy and call it out and then hopefully go somewhere deeper.
Garfield also essentially apologized later for having to keep it be a surprise…
What was fun about that too was the whole cycle of it. He then came on the podcast again for his apology tour conversation and had an in-depth, 45-minute conversation with me dissecting his lies and also the production of “Spider-Man: No Way Home.” So it took on a whole meta narrative. It’s just the value of engendering trust with these folks because then you get to revisit them. In some ways, all these conversations are like on a continuum, right? Like I just talked to Daisy Ridley today and she’s been on so many times and I’ve known her since “Force Awakens.” And it’s like one giant conversation stretched over 10 years that you can call back to other things. It just gets richer and more interesting.
Your recent Comic-Con panel was the official anniversary episode with David Harbour, Jack Quaid, Jamie Alexander, Sam Heughan, and Zoe Cho. How did that come to fruition?
I’d been trying to think of a way to kind of commemorate 10 years and just mark the moment. Comic-Con came to me and basically said, “Hey, do you want to do a live episode of ‘Happy Second Confused’?” And I’ve certainly been doing live episodes in recent years at the 92nd Street Y, and I love that partnership. But here was an opportunity to basically have carte blanche. I thought, OK, I’m going to do something I’ve never done before. I’m going to invite a bunch of folks that have been on the podcast and put them together and see what happens and go a little bit Graham Norton, a little bit old school for a talk show and put them all on one panel and have a fun time and celebrate everything we stand for. And it was a really special evening. There was a lot of love in the air.
Do you think you will continue having more groups of guests on the show?
I certainly now know it can work. I started to do a lot of live events after the 92nd Street Y approached me a few years back, and it has been a fantastic partnership and we’ll continue. I brought the live show to L.A. this past spring with Tom Hiddleston. We did a sold out show there and I definitely want to do more live events outside of New York, in L.A. and in London and who knows where else. And we’ll see what one of those takes, whether it’s single guests or now I know that the multi-guest option does actually work.
When you started out back in 2014, podcasts hadn’t really hit their stride yet. How has the podcast changed over the years with the technology?
I do pride myself on trying new things. “Happy Sad Confused” is certainly not the same exact show as it was 10 years ago. It is now a video podcast, which was came out of COVID, frankly. I started doing the podcast over Zoom and we were doing video anyway. Then we found a whole new audience on YouTube.
When I started doing video, I was a little reluctant because there is something to be said for the intimacy of audio and the comfort folks have of knowing they’re not being on-camera. But I think, you know, if I were starting out 10 years ago and I went right to video, maybe it wouldn’t have worked. Now, between video and live shows and now potential panels, there’s still a lot of room to try new things.
Would you consider having a TV vertical of “Happy Sad Confused” in some capacity or no?
You know, never say never. I mean, if you were to talk to me like eight years ago about like what my dream job was, it would have been a TV show. We shot a talk show pilot for MTV a few years back and it wasn’t picked up. I realized that I want to try new formats out. Like, it would absolutely be fun to do something in a television format. But I’ve learned that you don’t have to just because that was the old model and that’s what I grew up with. That doesn’t feel like the brass ring that will make or break my career. I’m perfectly happy living in the digital podcast realm.
That being said, if anybody wants to do a TV version of “Happy Sad Confused,” hit me up in my DMs.
I’m also thinking awards show hosting.
Oh my God, that’s flattering even to say something like that. I am surprised at the hosting side of my career. I never viewed myself as the shiny, polished on-air host. But I’ve put in the hours and the mileage and I kind of like back-doored my way into being that guy, which is crazy. I’ve hosted these crazy giant world premieres and live streams.
I hosted the “Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning” premiere on the Spanish Steps in Rome with Tom Cruise. I was on an aircraft carrier in San Diego hosting the “Top Gun: Maverick” premiere while a helicopter landed next to me with Tom Cruise.
Wait, are you officially part of Tom Cruise’s inner circle? Have you watched “How to Make Films” movie that Glen Powell was referencing?
No, I haven’t, sadly. Obviously he trusts me; you don’t host the world premiere with Tom Cruise without him and his team saying yes. But my relationship with Tom is what you see on-camera. The running joke I have in every interview with an actor associated with Tom Cruise is how I desperate want to get on the coconut cake list, the famous cake that he sends to all his friends and family. I haven’t gotten the cake and I haven’t gotten the invite to the screening room. So there’s still more to be explored in my relationship with Tom Cruise, but I’m happy where I’m at. To be trusted with those kind of ginormous events is an honor enough.
Lastly, how did you come up with the title for the podcast 10 years ago?
It’s totally random. The title actually predates the podcast. I was hired by MTV and I still am employed by MTV, covering movies and TV for them, 18 years ago. And often there were these opportunities where you would see journalists sometimes take photos with talent, which can be a little cheesy and a little sketchy, a little odd, whatever. And it always felt awkward and I decided at some point, well, maybe let’s make it into a thing and give them something to play or an angle so it’s not just like these awkward poses with an celebrity. I started to do this thing where after an interview, I would ask the celebrity to do three expressions with me: happy, sad, and confused.
The bizarre thing is that the first time I ever did this was on “Zero Dark Thirty.” Jessica Chastain had the very first “Happy Sad Confused” photos and has since become an acquaintance and someone that has been on the podcast. It all just started as a photo series and then when I began the podcast a little time after that, I thought, well, I’ve got this kind of recognizable thing already going, let’s just call it “Happy Sad Confused.”
And in a way, it works, because what is life but an accumulation of happy, sad, and confusing moments? The podcast is a lot of things including happy moments, melancholy moments, and certainly awkward, confusing moments. It all works.
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