Dylan O’Brien Talks ‘Caddo Lake’ and the Lesson Mark Rylance Taught Him About Taking a Stand
Between Caddo Lake on Max, Saturday Night in theaters and his beloved New York Mets’ current playoff run, Dylan O’Brien has all his bases covered.
During a chat with THR in March of 2022, O’Brien teased the big swing that is Celine Held and Logan George’s Caddo Lake, remarking that editing would be the thriller’s deciding factor. After a lengthy delay due to 2023’s labor stoppages, Held and George’s growing family and producers wanting to ensure a spooky season release, O’Brien’s two-and-a-half-year-old assessment turned out to be right on the money. Co-written and co-directed by Held and George, their now well-received film presents itself as a drama about two working-class Texans (O’Brien’s Paris and Eliza Scanlen’s Ellie) who are trying to reconcile the loss of their respective loved ones. And in the blink of an eye, Held and George pull the rug out from underneath the audience in a most intriguing way.
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Thus, it’s easy to see what producer M. Night Shyamalan originally saw in Held and George’s material. After all, he’s the filmmaker who turned a grounded drama about a depressed security guard in a crumbling marriage into the backdoor superhero film known as Unbreakable. Shyamalan met the married filmmakers through his Apple TV+ series, Servant, and in the early days of their three-episode collaboration, he posed a question about their latest feature script, which he immediately agreed to finance upon reading. At that point, O’Brien and Scanlen were already attached to star in what would later become a streaming release on Max.
“When [Shyamalan] came on, I was like, ‘Oh, that makes a lot of sense,’ but I was mostly excited to have a very seasoned filmmaker who, above all, believes in and fights for the autonomy of a filmmaker,” O’Brien tells The Hollywood Reporter. “There couldn’t have been a better kind of producer to come in and be Celine and Logan’s support. He really let them flourish.”
O’Brien is also currently co-starring as Dan Aykroyd in Jason Reitman’s Saturday Night, which chronicles the chaotic 90 minutes before the first episode of Saturday Night Live on Oct. 11, 1975. In a response to a question about what 90 minutes he’d dramatize from his own career, O’Brien reflected on a moment with Sir Mark Rylance on the set of Graham Moore’s The Outfit (2022). His following account is further contextualized by his recent quotes to Men’s Health about his life-changing accident on the set of Maze Runner: The Death Cure (2018) and how he felt his safety concerns were disregarded en route to serious injuries.
“There was a hilarious moment on [The Outfit] set that was also a fantastic lesson in watching an actor stand up for his process. Where I come from, that was always something that was really belittled, and if anything, you were made to be the bad guy,” O’Brien shares. “If you were ever like, ‘Hey, I need more of a heads-up if that scene’s going to be ….’ then that type of thing would usually get batted down. They’d be like, ‘Oh, are you being a brat again? Are you getting big-headed?’”
O’Brien and Rylance devoted a major chunk of a shooting day to completing an eight-page dialogue scene between their two characters, and when they wrapped for the day, they were led to believe that they’d covered the scene in full, without the need for additional close-ups. However, when they arrived on set the following day, the previous day’s scene that they thought they’d already finalized was reconfigured for close-ups without warning. So, once O’Brien and Rylance realized they’d have to revisit that scene, the esteemed Oscar winner and decorated theater actor put his foot down.
“I kind of made a joke about it, because I didn’t want to make a fuss in a way that you’re gaslit to not do in your early twenties,” O’Brien recalls. “But then I watched Mark Rylance — during this simmering sort of tension that lasted about 90 minutes — say, ‘This is absolutely unacceptable,’ and have it really be heard and respected and honored. We then got to step off and go prepare, and we got to take as much time as we needed.”
O’Brien adds: “Even then [Rylance] was amazing. He was like, ’I’m being a little bit of a bitch, but it’s a firm boundary I want to stand up for. Do you think I’m being too much of a …?’ And I was like, ‘No, no, no. It’s amazing. I love you for this. It’s an absolute boundary cross, and I love that you stood up for that.’ So I’ve never forgotten that moment, and the way he did it was firm but not unkind.”
Below, during a recent conversation with THR, O’Brien also discusses how the seemingly wretched conditions of Caddo Lake’s swamp-based set ended up being one of his most enjoyable filming experiences ever.
So how did Caddo Lake play on the page? Were the twists and turns just as impactful?
It was probably a little harder to figure out without the visual element, so it took two reads, even though I was totally in after the first one. I was obsessed with Celine [Held] and Logan [George], their script and the aesthetic of the environment that they sent in the [concept] footage. Ultimately, I just really bought into the foundation of the story and its emotionality that’s entrenched in this family tragedy. The film is about loss, and then this heightened element turns otherwise totally ordinary circumstances into something extraordinary. I’m just such a fan of that type of thing, but the twists definitely took some charting the second time through to just make sure I had all of them.
You were cast before M. Night Shyamalan came on as a producer-financier, but given the material, it probably made total sense to you why he’d jump on board, right?
Yeah, when he came on, I was like, “Oh, that makes a lot of sense,” but I was mostly excited to have a very seasoned filmmaker who, above all, believes in and fights for the autonomy of a filmmaker. He self-finances his own films. He believes in a singular vision, and there couldn’t have been a better kind of producer to come in and be Celine and Logan’s support. He really let them flourish.
Celine and Logan were your first time working with co-directors, and with the movie being such a puzzle, were they more specific with their direction than most directors?
They’re really on top of everything. They track everything. So they’re precise and specific and hyper detail-oriented, but they love life and imperfections and real people. So, if anything, they were hyper locked into performance and finding really naturalistic moments. Their magic, as filmmakers, is working with actors, and they also work with a lot of people who are not actors. They auditioned and cast a lot of people who had never been on a set or in front of a camera before, so they were quite communicative in order to make them comfortable and confident enough to forget about the camera. They’d give them such little things to focus on. So their magic is that contrast and blend of a hyper naturalism and a grounded nature in this cinematic genre landscape.
As I told Celine and Logan, there were stretches of this film where I kept thinking about how miserable everyone must have been in this swampy environment. Did you feel filthy the entire shoot?
Yeah, but I couldn’t have been less miserable, though. I don’t even know how to explain it. I can totally see how you’d watch the movie and assume that the conditions were terrible, but I honestly loved it. Eliza [Scanlen] was muddier and soaking wet for more of it than I was, but it was fantastic to be really immersed in this place. It did so much of the homework for me, and it really helped me craft everything. When it was all said and done, 90 percent of what ultimately informed my character came from immersing myself in this environment and spending time with this community [in the Shreveport, Louisiana filming location]. I really leaned in and I didn’t want to leave. I was obsessed with it.
My favorite moment of yours is when your character, Paris, has this epiphany while looking at a piece of paper. You then let out this big, almost maniacal laugh, and it was one of the only moments in the entire movie where Paris felt some catharsis. Do you remember making that choice?
I do, yes, and the credit has to go to Celine and Logan. They pull that shit out of you by giving you permission in the greatest way. This is what I was trying to articulate earlier about what makes them so wonderful. Sometimes, being specific about notes can be really controlling, and it can inhibit your openness and freedom, which is the worst thing that you can do to an actor. So even though they’re so hyper-specific about things, they couldn’t give you more free rein. If you’re doing something, they’ll come in and be like, “Give us that a hundred times more. We don’t have to use it. It might not work, but it might be fucking amazing.” They’re so infectious in that way. So I remember that specific moment coming from Celine, I think. She came over and she, again, was just like, “It might not make the movie, but just give us something absolutely different. You’re receiving this news and just go for it.” So they open you up in that fantastic way.
I imagine most costume fittings are pretty ho-hum, but will you always remember your fitting for Jason Reitman’s Saturday Night?
(Laughs.) Yeah, I remember the only thing that we did was literally make the hot pants shorter. They pinned them and were like, “They just need to ride higher.” (O’Brien then mimics his hilarious reaction to that news.)
(Writer’s Note: Early on in Saturday Night, Rachel Sennott’s character, Rosie Shuster, jokes to O’Brien’s Dan Aykroyd that she told the costume designers to make his hot pants even shorter. Did O’Brien’s costume fitting inspire that joke?)
To give you the same question I gave Rachel Sennott and Gabriel LaBelle, if you were to dramatize 90 minutes from your career à la Saturday Night, what 90 would make for the most compelling movie?
What’s coming to my head right now is from when I worked with Mark Rylance on something.
The Outfit …
Yes, we spoke about it. But I adore that man, and there was a hilarious moment on set that was also a fantastic lesson in watching an actor stand up for his process. Where I come from, that was always something that was really belittled, and if anything, you were made to be the bad guy. If you were ever like, “Hey, I need more of a heads-up if that scene’s going to be …. “ then that type of thing would usually get batted down. They’d be like, “Oh, are you being a brat again? Are you getting big-headed?” But since Sir Rylance comes from theater, he couldn’t be a more respected human being in terms of acting, so this was a really amazing lesson.
One day, we had a six-hour scene that we concluded, and it was eight pages of us talking. We did two [lens] sizes on it from both sides with many takes, and we started with the wide before it went to a cowboy [shot]. We then wrapped at the end of the day, and we both inquired, “We’re not going closer?” That was not the plan, and our director, Graham [Moore], who’s fantastic, was like, “No, I feel good. We got it.” And we were like, “Okay!”
So, mentally, we put that scene behind us after asking the [close-up] question professionally. And then, the next morning, we came in and there were two close-ups set up on the same scene, which we were not told about. Again, I want to draw the boundary. I want to at least say, “This isn’t cool,” but I kind of made a joke about it, because I didn’t want to make a fuss in a way that you’re gaslit to not do in your early twenties. But then I watched Mark Rylance — during this simmering sort of tension that lasted about 90 minutes — say, “This is absolutely unacceptable,” and have it really be heard and respected and honored. We then got to step off and go prepare, and we got to take as much time as we needed.
Even then he was amazing. He was like,”I’m being a little bit of a bitch, but it’s a firm boundary I want to stand up for. Do you think I’m being too much of a …?” And I was like, “No, no, no. It’s amazing. I love you for this. It’s an absolute boundary cross, and I love that you stood up for that.” So I’ve never forgotten that moment, and the way he did it was firm but not unkind. He was respected and totally right, and I loved that moment.
From Sir Mark Rylance to Letterboxd, which is a seamless transition …
(Laughs.)
I really appreciated the four movies you chose for your Letterboxd segment. Normally, people select films that are off the beaten path, and while there’s always great stuff being highlighted, I like that you went with more mainstream favorites since we all started with popular studio fare.
What did I choose again?
Titanic, School of Rock, The Matrix, That Thing You Do.
Those really are four of my favorite movies ever.
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Caddo Lake is now streaming on Max.
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