'Fear the Walking Dead' Season 3 finale postmortem: Dave Erickson on the survivors, that apocalyptic Christmas
Warning: This interview for the Season 3 finale of Fear the Walking Dead contains spoilers.
Fear the Walking Dead wrapped its best season yet with its best finale yet, but there are two reasons we’re going to have to wait to find out just where Madison Clark and her friends and family will go from here: 1) cliffhangers… so many cliffhangers, and 2) showrunner Dave Erickson is leaving the series to work on another drama for AMC.
Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (Once Upon a Time) will share showrunner duties for Season 4, while The Walking Dead showrunner Scott Gimple has also signed on as a Fear executive producer for next season. Which means in addition to Erickson-planned cliffhangers, all Season 4 storylines are in the hands of the new team.
Erickson talked to Yahoo Entertainment about where he would have planned the story to go in Season 4, who wouldn’t have survived Nick’s suicide mission explosion of the dam, and what would have motivated all those who did live to fight another apocalyptic day.
I love the Christmas scene at the beginning of “Sleigh Ride.” It was quite jarring, in a fun way, because I was expecting something very different. But we actually got to see both Madison’s happy version, and very, very not-so-happy version of Christmas.
I’m glad we got to do that. The intention when we were breaking that story was always to have something of a flash forward element to it, and then I have to give credit to Mark Richard, who I co-wrote the episode with, because that twisted fantasy was his idea. We had a construct, and then he just kind of went to town. He’s a really good guy, and a wonderful writer, so it was nice to be able to finish things out with him. But, yeah, it’s interesting, because [that] was an issue — because there’s the fantasy scene of the dinner in Season 7 [of The Walking Dead], there were certain concerns that because there was a dinner table [here], and because there was a meal, that it would be too much of an echo. But I think we distinguished it, and hopefully it stands on its own.
It did, and visually, it looked cool, and was distinctive from the look of the apocalypse. I thought, “This is where I want to spend Christmas. This is gorgeous.”
It was. And the turkey was real, and we ate some. It was fantastic. It was very much about what Jami O’Brien wrote [in the previous episode, “Things Bad Begun”]. She teed it up, because there’s that scene between Madison and Strand, as she talks about what she imagined. It’s the idealized version of what the ranch might have been, in a twisted, macabre way. And it’s also, as we eventually realize, that everything we’re seeing is in Madison’s head as she’s drowning. It’s watching those things corrupted, and I think the whole end point for the episode, and for the season, really, is, there’s very much a The Bridge Over the River Kwai moment for Madison, where she drags herself from the river, and has no idea if her children survived. And it’s that moment of, “What have I done?” Because I think directly or indirectly, she has to own the season, and own a lot of the bloodshed and the violence that’s gone on with it. And I think it’s got to be something that, hopefully, she’s wrestling with going into Season 4.
It feels so fitting that we ended with cliffhangers on the status of most of the characters, because all of them have changed so much this season. It seems certain they are all going to be in very different places.
I mean, I think yes. I’m curious to see how that manifests. … Clearly, Alicia had her coming of age, and I think that was something that a lot of people had been chomping at the bit for, especially people who are fans of not just character Alicia, but actress Alycia Debnam-Carey. So it was good that we arrived at that point, and I think we took the time we needed to take to get there. What she went through in [“Brother’s Keeper” and “This Land Is Your Land”] — she came out of that a much, much different person. So I think that’ll be compelling to watch as we move into Season 4, the level of composure she has, and her ability to survive on her own.
The real question for me is reconciling this chasm between Madison and Nick, because I think thematically, we were delving into violence, and the exploitation of violence, and when do you use it, when is it appropriate, especially as you’re trying to build new societies and the resources you need to sustain them. That was the intention in destroying the dam, and I think for Nick, he saw this thing that everyone’s been fighting and killing for, and decided that, in hopefully saving his family, he would also take that away from the warmongers essentially. His hope was, he’s really killing multiple birds with one stone. He was going to defy Proctor John, he was going to save Madison and Alicia. He was also going to return the water to the people, so no one would need to fight for it. Everybody would have an opportunity to take what they needed. And if he has to die in the process, he was okay with that. Nick always had a very self-destructive bent to him, and I think this felt like the appropriate end point for him as a character. Not to say he’s gone, but I do think there was a certain organic quality to his arrival [at that place].
He was dealing with his addiction again right before he went to the dam. Was there some feeling, a reminder, on his part that he was going to be dealing with that the rest of his life, even in this apocalyptic setting, and did that add to his willingness to volunteer for this potential suicide mission?
I think to a certain degree, yeah. His addictions manifest in different ways, clearly. I think Season 2, he became fascinated with the dead, and his connection to the dead. I think in Season 3, it really was his constant attraction to death, and I think that’s largely the reason why he hung out with Troy, it’s part of the reason why he protected Troy. It’s also because he killed Troy’s dad — and you can argue whether it was a justifiable murder or not, but I don’t think Nick felt that. I think Nick felt like, “I took a life, and it’s not settling well with me.” The thing that really pushed him over the edge, and it doesn’t take much in this world, was the loss of Alicia. Because in her absence, when he sees Madison at the market, she’s so desperate to have one of her children with her, and she’s leaning on him, and relying on him. And he rejects that. It’s like for the first time, she’s looking at him as the good son, because Alicia’s gone. And I think in that moment, that idea is too much for him. He sits down, and the pills are there, and that’s sort of the knee-jerk reaction. It’s escape. It’s running from that obligation, that responsibility, which he’s been trying to hold on to for a big chunk of the season. You’re talking about a guy who feels responsible all the way back to Travis’s death, because had he not run off, they wouldn’t have followed him, and they wouldn’t have ended up at the field depot, and Travis would probably be alive right now. So he’s been living with that sense of guilt and responsibility for the bulk of the season. And then finally, when it becomes clarified and defined in that scene with Maddie, I think that’s when he cracks.
Going back to Alicia, this has been such an amazing season for her. She has emerged as a powerful leader, a leader with more humanity than anybody in her family. Is she kind of the Madison that Madison might be if Madison hadn’t had the traumatic childhood experience of her abusive father, and of killing her father?
I’ve never thought of it that way, but yeah, yes. I think there is a goodness, there is a benevolence to that character. She’s not as twisted, and torn, and conflicted as Nick is. And she definitely does not have the same knee-jerk proclivity for violence. She’s become this very composed, sort of self-contained unit.
For Madison, we see where she lands. Is part of what you intended her journey to be going forward some freedom of being able to figure herself out, take care of herself, without the pressure of the two kids being there and feeling like she constantly had to protect them?
To a certain degree, yeah. … For me, there was one version early on where it would have been a rallying point, where we would have seen all the characters come together with one common enemy, and that would have been Proctor John. And in that version, they really would have been driven by revenge. Not doing that, and not exactly sure where [producers] are going to take things next season, I still feel like we came full circle and rounded things out emotionally, especially for Madison, and Nick, and Alicia. But I think that there’s definitely going to be a weight on Madison, and it’s really a question of how the [producers] want to take it, if she’s going to reconnect with the other survivors when we come back in Season 4. Because for me, I don’t think we would have ended with as much separation, and I think we would have had a bit more of a pointed focus going into Season 4. Right now, in terms of closure and in terms of an ending, what was important for me was for Madison to sort of have to steep in what she’s caused — really looking at what she’s wrought and realizing that, “My way may not be the right way. Despite all my best efforts, despite my best intentions, despite some of the crimes I’ve abided by and committed myself, it still came to this.” And I think she definitely has to reassess.
You mentioned Proctor John. Would Proctor John have lived going forward? Maybe he still will, because it’s a shame to lose the great Ray McKinnon. It’s tough to imagine anyone else playing that character now. You worked with him on Sons on Anarchy, right?
He is awesome. I worked with him on Sons, and when we were talking about the character, there was a period of time when I was thinking about [SOA alum] Kim Coates. He’s got an apocalyptic quality to him, and he’s got those eyes, which just kind of cut through you, but what we wanted was somebody who kind of went against type. There’s a certain gentle quality that Ray can do. A thoughtful quality, because I find him to being somewhat cerebral, and there’s a kindness. He can go there, and he can find rage. So I think he became really interesting to us as an actor, and we got lucky, because I think it’s the first acting job he’s had since Sons, because I think he went off to make Rectify.
So he was, I believe, in Budapest, and I sent him an email to see if he remembered me. And then I sent him a couple of scenes, because we didn’t have the scripts done yet. And I think he and Kim are friends, so Kim sent him an email, and I was very thankful that he was willing to come down to Baja and hang out with us. And, yeah, I mean, I think it’s pretty obvious from the end of the season, my intention would have been to continue, and I think he would have been the target of this arc of vengeance from our principles. And it’s interesting, because Ruben Blades was very concerned following the death of Ofelia, then the death of Lola — he didn’t know where [Daniel] was going to go, and what did that mean for him? And what I said to him at the time was, “Well, look, there’s somebody who [Daniel] ought to pay back, and this somebody who’s responsible for killing your surrogate daughter. And I think the rage that goes with that is going to be enough for you to team up with the rest of the family, even Strand, even though Strand shot you in the face. I think you’ll have to put that aside until this job is done.” So, yeah, in my mind, we would have been going to Texas, and Ray would have become our adversary for [Season 4].
We’ve been talking about Blood Meridian, by Cormac McCarthy, in the writers’ room for a long time. And I think that might be part of why Ray took the gig, because Proctor John is very much the judge from Blood Meridian. He’s somebody who has a naturalistic approach to violence. It is human nature. War is what we have been made to do, and he believes that. He doesn’t take it personally; when he does kill, he just kind of deals with it like he deals with a chore. There’s a certain disconnect in that respect. There’s also just such a gentle, almost fragile quality to Ray’s performance, so that when he does bark, I think it really hits. We were lucky [he signed on for the role].
And Strand… I think of him as the one most committed to surviving, even if he doesn’t know what that’s going to look like down the line. But at the end of the season, has his faith that he will survive, his commitment to it, been rattled? He seems shaken in a way we’ve never really seen him shaken before.
I would say yes. I mean, here’s the thing: what we come to realize, and this is again going back to the idea that our characters are dealing with this larger question of violence… Strand is a con man. He can talk a good game, he can talk his way into situations, and out of them generally, but when he was forced into a position where he had to pull a gun, and he had to kill, he balked. The things that Daniel had said to him, these things are true. And I think that’s his moment of realization, where that’s the one thing he can’t do. He can kill a zombie. He’s adjusted to that. But to kill a human being is beyond him. And from Nick’s perception, that’s a good thing. But I think what that moment represents for Strand is, it’s a realization of his limitations. It’s what he really can or can’t do.
I still find it interesting that when he describes it to Madison and to Nick, he does say, “It’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to me.” So even in that moment where he’s shot Salazar in the face, doesn’t know if he’s dead or alive, he still looks at it from more of a self-centered place. It’s like, “That happened to me. This was inflicted upon me.” I would imagine in his negotiation with Proctor John, it was something Proctor John probably suggested. Strand offered to open up the door in exchange for maintaining control of the dam. And in my mind, it was Proctor John who said, “I’m not going to negotiate with them, I’m going to kill them. And that’s the cost. That’s the fee. You need to take them out.” And Strand couldn’t. In this world it might be seen as a weakness, but for me, it’s really more of a sign of his humanity. Honestly, Daniel had it coming. Daniel left him to die [at the hotel]. I think it’s important to remember that, because I do think, in the world of the show, there’s justification for what Strand did in his own mind. And the fact that he couldn’t [kill] is telling.
About Daniel… if Daniel isn’t going after Proctor John, what is his motivation going forward to survive?
That is an excellent question. One which you will have to ask [Scott and Andrew and Ian]. The answer is, I don’t know, because that would be the line that I would follow for him given what he’s been through, and given what’s been done to him, and what he’s lost. So I don’t know exactly how that’s going to manifest. I’m as curious as you.
You’ve certainly left all of these stories and characters in such interesting places. Will you be involved with the show at all going forward?
No. My wife [Lucifer executive producer Sheri Elwood] and I are adapting a novel that David Cronenberg wrote, called Consumed. So that’s the next thing up for us. We’re going to be working on that for AMC, and I just signed a deal at Sony. We’ve got a couple of things that I’m hoping are going to come to pass in the next few weeks.
But thank you, that was the intention [to leave the show in a good place]. I think looking back, there were definitely things I would have done differently in Season 2, and it was important to get a good rhythm in this season, and really build something that I hoped people would respond to.
Are you at all bummed about missing out on the FTWD/TWD crossover that we just learned is going to happen?
I am not. It’s a big swing, and I think it’s something that the fans are definitely going to be leaning into, and there’s going to be a lot of expectation, and I think it’ll definitely boost the ratings, and those are all good things. But I think it’s a challenge. I think you’ve got two shows, and what we’ve always talked about is there’s a geographic gap, there’s a timeline gap, and then for me more specifically, one of the things I’m happy with is, I do think we carved out a distinction, and I think [Fear the Walking Dead] definitely became its own thing living within the worlds of the franchise. So I think it’s a challenge. It is exciting.
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