“Heretic” ending explained: Stars and filmmakers give their take on that ambiguous finale

"To us, the ending does mean something specific," director Bryan Woods says.

Warning: This article contains spoilers for Heretic.

What the hell happened at the end of Heretic?

The new horror-thriller from Quiet Place scribes Scott Beck and Bryan Woods ends on a pointedly ambiguous note. After several long-winded monologues about the paradoxes and inconsistencies of organized religion, the villainous scholar Mr. Reed (Hugh Grant) seemingly resurrects a captive woman, rattling visiting Mormon missionaries Sister Paxton (Chloe East) and Sister Barnes (Sophie Thatcher). At one point, the resurrected woman cryptically says, "It is not real."

Then, after a clever attempt to attack the abductor, Reed shockingly kills Barnes and then launches into a new monologue about simulation theory. He refers to a Daoist concept illustrated by philosopher Zhuangzhi, who dreamed he was a butterfly and became uncertain of reality upon waking — is he a man who dreamed he was a butterfly or a butterfly who dreamed he was a man? Paxton eventually descends into Reed's hidden basement and gives a beautiful speech about the power of prayer while also accusing her captor of improvising his extra material about simulation theory.

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In the film's last moments, Barnes suddenly awakens from her apparent death to land a fatal blow on Reed, eventually allowing Paxton to exit the compound into the Colorado snow. The film leaves us with one haunting detail in the final scene: the fluttering of a butterfly, punctuating Paxton's escape with a suggestion that the entire last act may have been a simulation or a dream and that Paxton might not have survived the night after all.

The finale's ambiguity is intentional. "With the ending, we hope people watch it and have a very specific interpretation, but we hope that it's different from person to person," Beck tells Entertainment Weekly. "To us, the ending does mean something specific, but saying what the ending means is almost like saying, 'This religion over here is the one true religion,'" Woods reveals. "It's almost at that level. It'll be really interesting to see once more people have seen the movie and taken it in, but we're hoping people have a clear interpretation and they defend that interpretation in conversation."

Related: Hugh Grant bedevils in Heretic, a theological debate wrapped in horror trappings

Beck confirms that the directing duo agree on one particular reading of the final sequence. "We actually do, yeah," he says, comparing their approach to the finale to Paul Schrader's explanation of First Reformed. "We got invited to a dinner at Brigham Young University of all places, and Paul Schrader was another guest there, and he was talking about First Reformed, which was our favorite movie of that year. And Bryan and I had talked endlessly about First Reformed and the ending of that with Ethan Hawke, and we just love the interpretation that we had of that movie's ending."

The duo was surprised by Schrader's take on his own finale. "As we sat down to dinner, Paul Schrader started getting asked by other people at the table about First Reformed and the ending of that, and Paul Schrader very definitively put his foot in the ground and said exactly what his interpretation of that ending was, and it couldn't be more different than what Bryan and I adored and loved about that film," Beck says. "And in some ways, it was exciting to hear him discuss his firm statement of what that movie meant, and yet it totally invalidated what our feeling of it was."

Beck and Woods want to avoid that dynamic by withholding their opinions from public knowledge. "When you release a movie, it belongs to the audience," Beck says. "More than I think anything we've ever done, we want this movie to make sure that there is room for that discussion." Woods agrees: "The movie is a conversation, and then we hope the movie ends, and then the real conversation begins. That's our hope, and we hope to receive that and hear and hear from people."

Thatcher and East were surprised to hear that the directors had a definitive reading of the climax. "Oh, wow, I wasn't expecting that," Thatcher tells EW. "I personally feel like I don't have just one reading — each time I watch it, it feels different. Last time I watched it, I felt a hopefulness that I hadn't felt before. Chloe's last monologue touched me in ways that really struck me. And then, that last moment, I was just sobbing and felt less doomed and more hopeful. But then, other times, it's completely different. I think it's really dependent on what state I'm in. It's interesting that even though we acted in it and we've seen it so many times, I feel differently every time I see it."

Related: Hugh Grant and a scented candle terrorize two young missionaries in the trailer for A24's Heretic

East shares her costar's sentiments. "That's my feeling, too," she says. "It always changes depending on different things, but I've had friends at the screening who were like, 'I can't believe that miracle happened; I can't believe you made it at the end! You prayed for him, and it worked!' And then I have other friends who were like, 'Yeah, well, obviously you died. You died!' And there's very kind of polarizing takes, and the beautiful thing is none of them are right or wrong. It's just how it was meant to be. And I don't even really feel like it leans towards one way. It's open."

Beck reiterates that he doesn't want everyone to agree with him about the ending. "To be completely honest, it is not for us to say what the movie is or means when all is said and done, but certainly for us, the ambition is to let this movie live beyond the ending credits," he says. "A lot of the movies that we do, we joke that they'll be put up on screen, and then all of a sudden, the audience will pick up their coats, leave the theater, and be like, 'Ah, do you want to get Applebee's for dinner? Or do you want to get Chili's? Should we go to Red Robin?' And they forget about the movie."

He continues, "Our hope is that with this movie, there's something personal that we've injected into it, and we hope that it hits a personal chord with anyone that watches it and chooses to engage with the ideas that it's presenting."

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Heretic is now playing in theaters.

These interviews have been edited for clarity and length.