INTERVIEW: “We Really Want People To Have Permission to Enjoy” – Michael Jackman Discusses New Film Conclave

Conclave held on until late August to kick off its festival run, debuting at the prestigious Telluride Film Festival, an exclusive event held each year high up in the mountains in Colorado across Labor Day weekend.

When it met its first audience in those famed peaks, critics called it a "stunning dramatic achievement" featuring "one of the best roles of [Ralph Fiennes'] career". It has spent the last few weeks since travelling to audiences around the world, from Toronto to Vancouver, San Sebastián in Spain and Zurich in Switzerland, captivating people more and more the further it goes.

Based upon the Robert Harris novel of the same name, Conclave sees Ralph Fiennes star as Cardinal Lawrence, who serves as Dean during the secretive and sacred act of selecting a new Pope following the death of the old one.

Grappling with his faith, Lawrence finds himself amidst a conspiracy which threatens the foundation of the Catholic Church, and what follows is a captivating drama that weaves in darkly comedic undertones to make for a wickedly exhilarating can't-look-away two hours.

Now, having made the journey to London's Southbank, Michael A. Jackman (one of the film's producers) gets to see the labor of love he has spent over two and a half years nurturing greet its first British audience.

Playing as the Headline Gala during this year's BFI London Film Festival, Jackman joins his fellow crew members in town with some of the excellent ensemble cast, including Stanley Tucci, Isabella Rossellini, and Fiennes himself, who all take to the red carpet on the evening of October 10 outside the Southbank Centre's Royal Festival Hall.

Two days before the premiere, I met Michael A. Jackman in the grand Crystal Moon Lounge at Corinthia London. He is about thirty minutes out from heading across the Thames to check on projection, ensuring smooth sailing for the film's first UK screening.

Jackman may have spent the last few weeks trekking across the world with Conclave, but he has only had a chance to sneak in a viewing of one other film amidst the festival season chaos: Jacques Audiard's Palme d'Or nominee Emilia Perez.

"I'm still thinking about it," Jackman says as we take a seat to discuss his work as a producer on Conclave. "I wanted to see Anora, and I didn't get to do that," he says, "I love Sean Baker."

Anora, Emilia Perez, and Conclave share common ground: pundits are touting them as Best Picture contenders at next year's Academy Awards.

One viewing of Conclave tells you why it's part of the conversation. Not only is it sharp, thrilling, and packed with humor, but it's digging into contemporary themes that feel necessary for a film to approach when choosing to release before that impending November 4 deadline.

"That's intentional," Jackman says of the film's pre-election release date. "I feel like the film is getting a strong favorable response. There are always people who are not going to like things. There are haters."

How is he feeling ahead of the election? "I'm hoping I can keep living in the US," he says.

Robert Harris' novel was published in 2016, which feels like a lifetime since the narratives that have played out globally over the last eight years.

"What the novel, the screenplay, and the movie do is there's a universality of the power struggle that is reflected there," Jackman says. "I think [Conclave] would speak to the politics of any time. No matter when this movie is viewed or comes out, or if it came out 20 years ago or 20 years from now, I think you would connect the different characters and speeches in the movie to whatever was going on at the time."

Jackman joined the project two and a half years ago, a period which, again, feels like a lifetime since current events.

"Tessa [Ross] optioned the book from Robert Harris," Jackman says. "She set the project up, hired the writer, Peter Straughan, brought in Ed Berger, and got it to Ralph Fiennes."

Explaining his job on this production, Jackman says, "I liaise between creative and the physical production – money, budget, time – and help them achieve the director's vision within the parameters of the time and the money we have to do."

Conclave is one of the fastest-moving two-hour movies of the year. It's impressive how quickly the time flies, which is both a compliment to Jackman's work in keeping the ship sailing smoothly and director Edward Berger's vision as a director.

"As a producer, I want to make sure we shoot the things we need. So, when Edward said, 'We don't need to shoot this because I'm gonna do it this way, and we don't need to worry about this because we're gonna do this.' You have to go with that or argue with that," Jackman says.

"Having gotten to know Ed and having seen All Quiet on the Western Front, I was comfortable going with it. He does amazing things with breath and quiet. There's a lot of just breathing, and it sets a moment and lets you into it in an intimate way that I think if you had regular sound and a score, you wouldn't."

A rhythm developed in the cutting room with Berger in close collaboration with the film's editor, Nick Emerson.

"We go back and forth between Italian and English, Spanish and English, Latin and English, English and Italian. There are a lot of subtitles, but I don't think you quite notice it, or if you notice it, it enhances the experience. It doesn't take you out of a moment," Jackman says. "All of those different rhythms, the sound, the music, the editing, the visuals, and the transitions were a great balance we achieved."

There's a remarkable example of this deep into the film where Fiennes is behind a door, with Isabella Rossellini lingering on the other side. To give the context is to spoil one of Conclave's best moments, but Jackman and I unpack the ability Berger has to tell an audience so much through silence.

"I had a lot of respect for his creative sensibilities," Jackman says. "I think that was a moment handled really, really well, and you make that leap that [Sister Agnes] figured out it's [Lawrence], and that's ok with her."

He speaks fondly of Rossellini's performance, saying, "You can see the compassion on her face and the intelligence. She's taking in everything. I think her performance is very layered. I think we used every line that she had in the script. I don't think there's anything that was cut out."

I ask Jackman about crafting this cleverly constructed cast, and he reveals how difficult it was to find space for everyone's schedules to align.

"We kept losing them and then getting them back, and thankfully, we got them all back. First choice of all cast."

The harmony established between this impressive ensemble is what makes the movie into the compelling thrill ride it is. Each actor is so tuned into their character's motivations, desires, and needs that each one of them feels like a lived-in person – a feat almost easy to take for granted when they are orbiting a masterclass from two-time Academy Award nominee Ralph Fiennes.

"[Ralph] signed on a long time ago and is just absolutely the anchor. Such a perfect choice for a character where you need someone who you can read a lot into just his face, his moments, silences, and his breathing," Jackman says.

What's born from those impressive performances from some of our best working actors is what Jackman describes as "a fun ride."

"We really want people to have permission to enjoy," Jackman says. "There's a lot of light moments. There's a lot of intensity, but we want to give the audience a chance to laugh, to breathe, to reflect for a moment."

Our conversation is coming to a close, but I have to ask Jackman about the announcement made 24 hours prior; he will serve as executive producer on Boots Riley's next film, I Love Boosters.

"[I Love Boosters] is produced by Ryder Picture Company, which is Aaron Ryder and Andrew Sweat, and Aaron and I've worked together for years. I love him. He's a close friend. Andrew reached out to me and asked if I could look at something and help on it. I read the script and was like, 'This is cuckoo bananas.'"

I Love Boosters was revealed by NEON on October 8, alongside the announcement that Keke Palmer, Naomi Ackie, LaKeith Stanfield, and Demi Moore will star.

"I like to say that my guiding principle is projects I like, people I love," Jackman shares. "I'm looking for people. I've been doing this for a long time, and you spend a lot of time doing it. So I want to be spending time with people I like and respect creatively that I really enjoy spending time with because there's a lot of time to spend together."

Jackman is excited to join the crew of I Love Boosters, saying, "Boots is fascinating. So interesting. But he's a kind person. He's a collaborator, and he's got really strong sensibilities, and he's not a pushover at all. He has a very clear vision, but he listens, and he discusses it. He may not agree, but you never get a sense he's not willing to hear, and that's what matters. That, and the fact he's just a nice person to be around. That's what I'm looking for."

As for what we can expect from the next Boots Riley film, "I feel like it's a little bit Sorry To Bother You on steroids," Jackman says. "It's a lot of fun and so interesting. Boots is a hip hop artist and he's a labor organizer and very much about the message and the hyper realities of racial and economic situations. What he did so well with Sorry To Bother You is he hits you over the head with the message at the same time you were enjoying being hit over the head with the message."

Jackman says that I Love Boosters shares similar sensibilities with Riley's debut in that "[Boots] very much understands he's got to get people to enjoy the ride in order for that [message] to come."

This prompts me to ask about Jackman's opinion on the current landscape for filmmakers in the US, particularly as debates swirl about Hollywood losing its originality in response to the influx of sequels, prequels, spin-offs and IP-driven stories we are seeing dominate the box office.

"Hollywood doesn't really seem to be able to make smaller movies, and they're not making a lot of bigger movies," Jackman says. "Right now – maybe it's like companies being sold and bought and picked off – it feels like everyone's afraid to say yes. What that means – because there's not so many big Hollywood movies being made right now – it means there's material out there. There's actually now availability out there for independents. There seems to be money out there. It's a little bit like "never waste a crisis." I think there's an opportunity for independent film right now and maybe for the next bunch of years because there is sort of money flowing into the world of independent film."

Returning to Conclave, Jackman is encouraged by people returning to theaters and is enthusiastic about audiences getting to experience this film in that way.

"For me it's exciting. I love that this is a theatrical release," Jackman says. "It feels like the right way to release a movie. So, I'm encouraged at this particular moment in time. I've been feeling that way for the last six to eight months, even at the time when everyone's feeling like, 'Oh, no, what's happening.' We got over the strikes in the US, and that's been helpful, but I'm feeling pretty hopeful."

Conclave releases in theaters on October 25.