Isabella Rossellini on Playing the Eyes and Ears of ‘Conclave,’ Her Curtsy Moment, and Why She’s Not a ‘Bankable Actor’
The great actress Isabella Rossellini was the face of Lanc?me beauty for more than a decade beginning in the early 1980s, but strangely, if you look back, rarely is she the lead in any of her iconic films.
Sometimes a shadow, sometimes on the periphery, a Rossellini character is nonetheless always knowing, from tragic lounge singer Dorothy Vallens in her then-partner David Lynch’s “Blue Velvet” to ethereal beauty whisperer Lisle Von Rhuman in Robert Zemeckis’ “Death Becomes Her” and a wealthy Italian widow who dates below her station in David O. Russell’s “Joy.”
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In Edward Berger’s papal potboiler “Conclave,” Rossellini has fewer lines than ever — and probably they could fit on one page — as Sister Agnes. Here is a glowering nun who has seen some shit. In the case of Berger’s English-language follow-up to Oscar-winning heavy-hitter “All Quiet on the Western Front,” Agnes is the eyes and ears for Cardinal Lawrence (Ralph Fiennes), appointed to oversee the selection of a new pope as power-grabbing cardinals from around the world descend upon the Vatican for a ruthless election process that here becomes the stuff of drama, even opera.
The contenders include his progressive pal Cardinal Bellini (Stanley Tucci); Cardinal Adeyemi (Lucian Msmati), angling to become the first African pope but with secrets of his own; the shady Cardinal Tremblay (John Lithgow); the reactionary Cardinal Tedesco (Sergio Castellitto); and secret weapon Cardinal Benitez (Carlos Diehz). But Sister Agnes, as the drama scripted by Peter Straughan churns out, has dirt on all of them, and Rossellini, after first receiving the script and then reading Robert Harris’ source novel, relished the chance to play a character who’s all piercing stares, knowing ears, and party to (but never participant in) a corrupt patriarchy.
Audiences who saw the movie during its Telluride world premiere or at the Toronto International Film Festival know the reaction Rossellini elicits in a pivotal moment in which, after Fiennes’ Lawrence reveals yet another scandal of corruption within his ranks involving bribery, Lawrence’s accomplice Agnes does a little curtsy as a reassertion of her power. It’s one of the great moments in a wildly entertaining movie that feels like one of those classic, classy Oscar contenders — with luscious costumes, rich cinematography, and brilliant top-flight acting — they rarely make for adults anymore. It opens from Focus Features on October 25.
Below, Rossellini talks Sister Agnes, her thoughts on almost always playing supporting characters, and the influence of her mother Ingmar Bergman and father Roberto Rossellini for this particular Italian-centric story, which shot at the famed Cinecittà studios outside Rome.
The following interview has been condensed and edited for length.
IndieWire: Your mother, Ingrid Bergman, plays one of the all-time great movie nuns in “The Bells of St. Mary’s,” Leo McCarey’s comedy from 1945. Did you draw any inspiration from her to play a nun in “Conclave”?
Isabella Rossellini: I haven’t really thought about it. My mom played a very fun nun in a comedy. She teaches boys how to be strong and use punches, and it was a delightful film, but it was a very different film from “Conclave.” I’m a different age than my mom when she played that. She was probably late twenties, early thirties. I’m in my seventies, so it was difficult to make any parallels. Besides the fact that we were nuns!
So how did you end up cast in “Conclave”? I can’t imagine you’re auditioning much anymore.
Sometimes, I’m auditioning, or sometimes, I’m auditioning. I want to get to know the director or talk about something that is unclear in the script that might be fascinating. I didn’t audition. I forgot when it was offered to me. The film was shot in January [2023], and I probably got the script in October, November [2022]. Edward is a director that I admired a lot. I read the script and loved it. It was a pageturner. I read the book and loved it. Then, it was this fabulous cast. How could I say no?
Generally speaking, you work with so many incredible filmmakers. Not just David Lynch, but Guy Maddin, Peter Greenaway, James Gray, David Simon, if we want to talk TV. Do they come to you, or do you seek them out?
Generally, they come to me. I have to say — and it’s one of the curses of being an actress — you’re chosen. You don’t choose. I’m not a bankable actor. I don’t develop my own script or buy options to books to develop them. I’m at the mercy of being liked. [Laughs]
“Conclave” filmed at Cinecittà. Had you been there before?
Yes, I shot there several times, but of course, it always makes me think of Federico Fellini because Federico had an apartment. He slept there, he lived there, he loved being in the world of film and in his fantasy. I have to say, we reconstructed the Sistine Chapel, and I had to think of Fellini and Visconti and my father [Roberto Rossellini] because they left a legacy of artisans and people that are capable of reconstructing the Sistine Chapel, and that takes a lot of skills. Because they have created these incredible people that worked in costume, in paintings, in photography, sets, it was so possible that Cinecittà is one of the best studios in the world. But it’s also part of this tradition established by the directors who came after the war.
Sister Agnes is a woman of few words, but she’s seen and heard some things in her day. How much of backstory did you create for who is on the surface a peripheral character?
I didn’t have much of a backstory but I knew that nuns can have a very subservient role in the Catholic Church. The Pope is a man, always a man. The cardinals are men. Even the mass can be officiated by a priest and not a nun. It’s very contrasting, the role of nuns and priests, and yet I knew that nuns are not subservient. They have great authorities because I went to Catholic school and have been taught by nuns. It was fascinating to play a role where you have to play that authority and presence without any dialogue, or having one scene with the dialogue. Most of the time, I say very little. You see me talking with the nuns, but you don’t see what I’m saying.
Is it harder to play a character with less dialogue?
I knew that my role was to be a shadow. That was the role because that was the role of the Church. Edward was stating the role of the Church, that it’s male-dominated. But females are also very present, but without words. To a certain extent, every woman knows of that role because sometimes women have a lesser role, whether in a board meeting or in life. We are getting out our voices, and the Church is very emphatic, and in real life maybe less, but I think we all experience this authority we have to have without many words.
In all the movies of yours I love, you are rarely a lead. You can be a shadow, but you are always knowing. Is that by design?
It’s not by design. Because I’m a foreign actress, it’s difficult to pass me as a family member because one family member speaks differently than the others. Now I’m old. Sometimes, they do a film about an old lady, you’ll have a secondary role. They did a retrospective of me in Italy last year, and I thought, “Oh, how great.” Then there was only one film where I was the lead, and I thought, “Uh-oh.” But they did the retrospective anyway, so I was pleased, but it’s true. I really always play supporting roles.
Talk about the first day of shooting at Cinecittà.
It was one of the first days I worked with Edward, he had the camera very up high, and the priests and the cardinals and the nuns were arriving in the square, leaving our van together in the Vatican. We were just these blue dots that were the nuns and the red dots that were the cardinals in the frame, and just the way these dots moved told the hierarchy. The blue dots, us, were walking in a row with a destination. Probably it was the kitchen. The men, the red, were talking, maybe one was leaving, there was leisure, chit-chatting, and just in the frame with the way these dots moved, he established the hierarchy. Women never mixing with men, like oil and vinegar, we never blended. We had something to do, and they were chit-chatting and talking about themselves. I was so glad that was the first day of shooting because this is not only a great director of actors but a great director like a painter.
Once you’re in the religious habit, how does that suddenly change what you’re doing as an actor?
Sometimes, I remember a film I did called “Joy” with David O. Russell, and my character, I was Robert De Niro’s love interest, and I had an idea who she was but when I wore the costume, I knew exactly because I was a richer lady and my love interest was a car mechanic. The costume designer dressed me up with white and beige cashmere, and I immediately understood how I didn’t fit. Everybody was greasy and dirty, and there I arrive, and I have money, and that dress really determined me. The nuns I expected to be dressed that way, and the nuns wear a uniform to erase their personality. They are there to be nuns. That’s what they are above all. It was less powerful, and made me less understand who I was, but of course I expected to be dressed like a nun.
You have a wonderful curtsy moment you do in the movie. Did you get that right in one take?
We did it in one take. Somebody asked if it was written in the script, and I don’t remember if it was or if I did it spontaneously, or if it was suggested, but it felt right. I never talk. My role is to be invisible but nevertheless god has given me eyes and ears. In front of a lie, I simply ratify, and say, “No, the cardinal sent the letter.” That’s it. I just say the truth, and then do the curtsy because I put myself back in the position of being a nun, and that has been the choice of Sister Agnes. She’s not forced in that position. She’s elected to be a nun. The curtsy is the result of the power of her choice.
Have you watched the movie at all in a theater? Because that moment does elicit a reaction.
I was very surprised. I was at the Toronto Film Festival, and yes, the film elicited much laughter. I knew that Edward is a fantastic director and he knows that in laughter is drama, so he certainly made sure to have [humorous moments]. But I didn’t expect so much laughter and suspense, and for sure, when I talk and then I do the curtsy, the audience broke into an applause because finally somebody said something, when the audience was saying, “Why doesn’t somebody say something?” And I’m saying what was on everybody’s mind. Today, a journalist said, “Oh my god, the title. ‘Conclave.’ I thought it was going to be a very boring film, but I was very entertained.” I thought he was very sincere.
To be honest, I felt the same way.
That it’s going to be boring, yeah.
Did you know Ralph Fiennes at all before filming?
I do know Ralph Fiennes because we have a very special lady, a 97-year-old woman, who is a very good friend of mind and of Ralph’s. She lives in Tuscany. I’ve met him when I go visit her. But she’s a friend I talk to every week, so I always have news of Ralph, and he has news of me. I was a little intimated because he’s known as one of the best actors ever, and I’m very good friends with Stanley Tucci and John Lithgow. I didn’t have any scenes with them, but it was fun to be with them, because we all stayed in the same hotel. It was wonderful to have dinners and take walks with my friends in Rome. Because Ralph is so well-respected and our friend is 97, and she has the authority of Sister Agnes, I was a little intimidated. My heart beat very fast.
Come on. I’m sure he was intimidated to work with you, too.
I don’t know. I don’t think so. He’s very charming, very gentlemanlike. He’s very warm. Doing a junket and doing press is difficult, and Ralph does three, four films a year. I said, “Ralph, you do this junket how many times? It’s very demanding.” He might do 30, 40 interviews a day. But he said, “I support the films I do.” I admired him.
You always have a great energy in this junket scenario that not a lot of actors do. It takes stamina.
It’s the intensity of it, because now we are talking with a lot of attention to one another. In life, you have that for the time that I am with you, 20 minutes, then you have a break, and a coffee, you look at the news. But here, you don’t. It’s constant. It’s very intense.
“Conclave” opens from Focus Features on Friday, October 25.
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