Jack Lowden Loves His Job: The ‘Slow Horses’ Star Unpacks Apple TV+’s Emmy-Worthy Spy Workplace
Welcome to My Favorite Scene! In this series, IndieWire speaks to actors behind a few of our favorite television performances about their personal-best onscreen moment and how it came together.
Jack Lowden is famously married to Saoirse Ronan, but asked about his favorite scene from “Slow Horses” Season 3 — he can’t stop complimenting his work wife.
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“Nothing fazes Roz in a take, nothing,” said Lowden of co-star and close friend Rosalind Eleazar. “She’s just infallible and sort of bulletproof that woman. She’s amazing.”
The actors, who play MI5 agents relegated to a detention-like posting in an underdog ensemble helmed by Gary Oldman, are headed into Season 4 of their seriocomic spy thriller for Apple TV+. Streaming weekly as of September 4, “Slow Horses: Spook Street” (each season is subtitled after the books by Mick Herron they adapt) will once again see Lowden playing the Emmy-nominated part of River Cartwright opposite Eleazar’s Louisa Guy.
At the end of Season 3, “Slow Horses: Real Tigers” saw River and Louisa deep in the action, at one point squabbling over who would get to use the single handgun shared between them for much of the finale. The characters share a sibling-like dynamic that’s at times funny and often fraught. Judging by the Reddit page, few if any “Slow Horses” fans want to see the duo’s unique connection turn romantic — but there’s an undeniably (platonic!) love to Lowden and Eleazar’s super-compelling onscreen partnership.
When asked to unpack his favorite scene from last season — nominated for five Emmys, including Outstanding Drama Series and Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series for Lowden — Lowden chose a quiter moment shared between Louisa and River in a parked car during Episode 4, “Uninvited Guests.” The short exchange sees the reluctant friends discussing the death of fellow agent Min Harper (Dustin Demri-Burns), who struck up a relationship with Louisa before he was murdered in Season 2.
“That scene in particular, there’s a few things that came out of us doing it and talking about it and just both of us being a lot braver than we perhaps would otherwise,” said Lowden. “Roz makes me feel brave, that woman, she makes me feel so brave.”
That one scene, particularly Lowden and Eleazar’s performances in it, bottles everything that “Slow Horses” does well. It’s painful, tender, sincere, uncomfortable, and funny — all at once. That can be attributed to not just the direction and the script, but the undeniable chemistry that Lowden says has helped him and the rest of the cast settle fully into their roles as collaborators on the show.
“So that scene, which was brilliantly written by series writer Will Smith, is a perfect example of us taking a really brilliantly written scene — but then the guys, both Will and the director Saul Metzstein, allowed us to bend it around a little bit more and make it even more nuanced and free,” said Lowden. “They give us complete license to do that and there’s not many actors you can do that with, but Roz is one of the best there is.”
Read on for more about that scene, Lowden’s beaming affection for his co-star, and the special sauce that has “Slow Horses” warring with “Severance” for Apple TV+’s best dark workplace comedy.
The following interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
IndieWire: You’re three, going on four seasons into playing River Cartwright — but this is your first Emmy nomination and the show’s first nod across the board. How does it feel for “Slow Horses” to be recognized by the Television Academy?
Well, I haven’t been trying. [Laughs.] It’s really wonderful. What I’ve been saying is that this is the first time I’ve ever done anything that’s sort of recurring and sort of long form and we’re going back to it again and again. And it’s no small commitment doing it. Something like this is just a wonderful sort of nod from across the room that people like it and it’s great to be in something that’s being well received. It’s a lovely feeling.
Have you changed as an actor since you started making “Slow Horses”?
Hugely changed as an actor. It’s given me space to be funny — well, in my mind, funny — and to play around with comedy more because it’s something that I have always been more naturally drawn to with any part I’m ever in. I will inevitably just get drawn to the funny side of life in that character and it’s not always the right thing, but in something like this, it is the right thing because it’s sort of funny by mistake. They’re all just dreadful at what they doo. Human beings, whenever they’re in frustration mode, I find that very funny. When things are going terribly wrong, people are funnier. So “Slow Horses” has really allowed me to work that muscle and I definitely feel changed as an actor in that way. On jobs that I’ve done since doing “Slow Horses,” it’s given me a sort of license to improv — to not just focus on the lines that you’re given but to try to bring your own creativity to it and not just tow the line. The wonderful thing about doing something recurring, the character becomes yours and there’s a lot more ownership.
What about River as a character has changed for you?
I don’t think he’s changed that much. I know that’s probably the wrong answer, but I don’t really think he’s changed. I think he’s giving in more to the fact that he’s going to be where he is, but he has probably begun to begrudgingly like the place that he works because at the end of the day they are on the side of the angels and I think that’s important to him. A sense of right and wrong is very important to River, even through his sort of heavy sarcasm and cynicism. So I think he’s just started to wear it like a comfy sweater, like, “OK, this is fine.” But he will still bite your hand off if he gets allowed to go and play with the big boys.
What made you want to dig into this scene from Season 3, Episode 4, “Uninvited Guests” — the one of River and Louisa talking inside the car?
First and foremost, it’s because it’s with Rosalind Eleazar, who plays Louisa, and Roz very quickly became my favorite actor that I’ve worked with ever. I’ve been really blessed by some wonderful actors I get to play with and many of them are in the show, like Gary Oldman. I actually don’t get that much time with Gary. River and Lamb are not together that often and we badly want there be more. Whenever I’m with Gary, I love it. But with Roz, I’ve never met an actor that makes you that much better — meaning me. She makes you better as an actor. She’s so phenomenally generous as an actor. She’s so aware very quickly of what the scene needs and what the character needs and I just think she’s one of the best actors working. She’s just easy and phenomenal.
Talk to me about the rehearsal process. Were you guys just chatting about this casually and then it was the day of or do you like to run lines?
Obviously it differs from actor to actor, but with Roz and I, we agree very quickly on what we think the scene is and if the scene needs anything else. If it doesn’t, then we don’t come into the scene thinking we know better or anything. It just sort of develops.
In that scene, Louisa is going through grief, something so horrendous. And so I know it was very important for Roz that the grief felt real and it didn’t feel indulgent, but it had an embarrassment to it because she was saying it in front of River. Then, ultimately the wonderful overarching thing is that these two characters find that they can be very honest and vulnerable with each other. I think it’s a surprise to them both. We were very particular in that we wanted that to come across that it’s not just, “Okaaaaay, tell me what’s wrong, boo, tell me things.” It’s not like that. It was a sort of gradual realization that actually we don’t have to be always quipping and at each other’s throats. We can actually discuss this.
And in a car! That’s the other thing, I like any scene in a car. Men will know this in particular because men with their fathers or with their brothers or whatever, a lot of men I speak to, they agree that men find it easier to share with one another when you’re both looking somewhere else. When your concentration is somewhere else, when you’re physically sat side by side, it takes away from having to give eye contact. That was another thing that came very naturally to me is that I’ve been in that situation loads. I know we’re not driving in the scene, but even just physically being in that position, it gives you license to be a little bit more open for two characters that aren’t that comfortable being open with one another.
Let’s unpack the emotion of a spy thriller. How do settings like a car — or any element that gives that sense of always-moving external action events — impact the emotion of scene?
In “Slow Horses,” they’re always being sat in an office. That’s a setting everybody can relate to at some point in their life — sat at work, sat at school, doing something they don’t want to do. Everybody can relate to that and then you take those characters that are very comfortable in those situations and you put them in life-or-death situations and instantly things come out. I’ve never really been in a life-or-death scenario, but I imagine that it’s the end of the world vibe that makes you go, “Fuck it, we’re all going to die! Or we all might die. This might go terribly wrong. So I’m going to say what I want to say.”
It’s a brillaint cheat sheet to get characters to be more open and more vulnerable. And when you work in security services, like these people do — obviously, we have no idea if this is what it’s actually like — I think they have very, very normal worries in many ways and they have problems at home that all these characters have. And so the brilliance of watching someone discuss if they’re in debt — like one character’s in debt, Kadiff Kirwan’s character in debt because he’s got a gambling addiction — and having him talk about that whilst also trying to dodge bullets or whatever is delicious because it makes a quite boring conversation quite exciting. And it makes the character be far more honest, far quicker. It’s like, “Yes, I did it, I slept with your father!” or whatever, “but who cares?” It’s great. The show really takes you to two extremes, utter boredom and the exhilaration of life and death.
How does making a show that is ultimately about a workplace impact your workplace?
Look, there’s no getting away from it. A lot of filming is pretty repetitive and mundane to a certain extent. I’m always very self-conscious when I invite a friend or somebody to come to a set that I’m on and you’re like, “Oh shit, it’s actually not that exciting!” Because, for 95 percent of it, the actors are just sitting in a little tent somewhere or in their trailer. The crew is generally doing most of the work, so they’re busier. I can kind of sympathize with River waiting around Slough House to a certain extent. Obviously, I’ve got a very exciting job because I eventually get to then pretend to run about as a spy and drive cars and all that kind of stuff. So that helps. But as everybody always says, there’s long periods of waiting and doing nothing, so it’s quite easy to slip into that on screen.
How would you describe a Slow Horses hangout? If you the cast is together, what’s the vibe?
The thing is that it takes six months to shoot one of these things, and the nature of it is that we’re very rarely together. With everyobdy, you’re like, “I’ve not seen you in seven weeks!” And they’re like, “Well, I’ve shot this whole other thing.” We’re all passing ships in the night, but we do want to change that. We’re just not in enough scenes together, all of us. Like River, in the one that is going to come out in the next couple of weeks, River is on his own for quite a lot. And so as an actor, you are on your own quite a lot to some extent. And it’s really the crew that are the family, it’s the crew that is this show.
What’s your relationship like with the crew?
Great. Some of them are now legitimately family friends — like Vicky Money, my makeup artist. There’s always a very special relationship that forms between an actor and their makeup artist because they look after the outside of their head and the inside of their head. They’re the person who you are with first thing — and they’re gorgeous. They’re always gorgeous people and she’s one of the most gorgeous I’ve ever worked with. She’s just wonderful. And the crew has mainly been the same since the first season. They’ve all come back, which is really bizarre. I am told for crews to all come back with TV is rare, but they love it. They’re wonderful. There’s a shorthand. There’s a such respect. It’s wonderful.
“Slow Horses” has from the very beginning managed to maintain this really delicate balance of warmth and suspense that’s so well captured in the scene that you’re talking about. How do you keep a rhythm and a mood like that from going stale?
I’m not being funny — and I would say this because I am one, I’m an actor — but good actors do that. That is our job and it doesn’t matter to me how you do it as long it’s respectful to the other actor or to the crew on the set. But that is your job first and foremost. That is the bit where we work hard, where we are not sat doing nothing. That is the bit where we really work hard and that’s the bit that I admire actors for. I just find it remarkable that they can do it and they can do it over and over again and they can make it fresh and then they don’t care if they get it wrong, but you really try and find something special.
I think it also helps that, for example, Roz and I are incredibly close friends off the screen, so there’s a shorthand. We sort of joke a lot, Roz and I, that there’s a massive crossover between ourselves and our characters. We keep trying to pull us into our own characters and our own dynamic into it. I guess that’s the easiest way to make it more full of life is that sometimes I just think, “OK, I’m just me playing Jack and I’m talking to Roz.” I don’t even think about River and Louisa and that seems to help.
Have you seen that approach working in Roz’s performance as well?
When she talks about the grief of having lost this guy Min (Dustin Demri-Burns), who is her sort of love interest, there were genuinely some moments where I was sat there looking at her and she was talking about it and I was like, “She isn’t acting.” It was just so…it was acting, but it was perfection. It was so hurtful to look at her. It was really hurtful. And ideal in a show like this where the atmosphere is basically like a dark comedy that surprises you — that kind of emotion creeps up on you and she really did it beautifully. But I remember I kind of thought, “Christ, I feel so bad for you.” Then someone called cut and she just went back to being herself. That’s a great actor.
Do you have any favorite memories with her from set?
Well, that scene stuck out, but whenever I’m with her she laughs a lot. Roz laughs a lot during takes off camera. She’ll laugh. She’ll laugh when she’s running, when she’s not supposed to be, and I’ll laugh at that. We just laugh quite a lot.
That scene was a great day and there’s a sort of weird awkward hug at the end that when I was coming in the car and I just thought, “Oh, I think he should try and hug her.” There was so much joy in the ease of trying to make it as awkward as possible — but then also the sweetness of the thought of it.
How would you describe the “Slow Horses” fan base? How would you describe the type of person who talks to you about this show the most?
I don’t know. I mean all different people — shapes, sizes, ages — everybody just seems to watch it. I don’t know what the fan base is. I really don’t know. Do you know? I don’t know.
As an American, I’ve been seeing it still find its audience here. I’ve been watching since Season 1, but right now, I feel like I am in this huge rush of people realizing “Slow Horses” exists.
Yeah, I don’t know who it’s aimed at, “Slow Horses,” and I don’t know what the demographic is or whatever, but I love the fact that there’s a sort of quiet satisfaction. I think everybody on the show feels that it took a little bit of time to sort of build and people are discovering it in that kind of “Breaking Bad” way. There’s a nice feeling to it because we’ve been working away making this and now people are realizing that it really is this gem hidden amongst a lot. As we all know, there are just so many shows made now. So yeah, I don’t who they are, but they certainly seem to like it.
Do you think there are any misconceptions about the show that come with the spy genre?
I saw the trailer for Season 4 yesterday and you would be an idiot if you thought it was just another spy thriller because of the way they put it out. It really isn’t. But I think what was difficult for us in the first season was working out what the tone should be. We were all kind of trying to find our feet with it because it needed to be, like I said, funny by accident. It’s not a gag-based show. It’s definitely very character driven because the circumstances of the characters can’t change too dramatically — or they’ll just have to kill them off. So I don’t know, to be honest, it’s such an enigma to me, the show. It really is. But it’s definitely a thriller comedy, I would say.
What did Roz say when she found out you were nominated for an Emmy?
She was wonderful. She sent me a message straight away. She just said, “well done,” which is so lovely. And I said back to her, “That’s only because of you.” And I don’t mean that to be sort of cutesy. It really is true. She makes you a better actor. She’s a very rare actor.
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