‘Joker 2’ Director Says Arthur Fleck Was Never Joker: ‘He’s an Unwitting Icon’ and Joker Is ‘This Idea That Gotham People Put on Him’
SPOILER ALERT: This story includes details about the ending of “Joker: Folie à Deux’
The murder trial at the center of “Joker: Folie à Deux” ends in explosive fashion: A bomb goes off and destroys the courtroom after Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) decides to defend himself and confesses that the Joker is not some split personality of his. Nor does he even exist. It’s been Arthur all along and he’s guilty of the murders he’s on trial for.
More from Variety
“He realized that everything is so corrupt, it’s never going to change, and the only way to fix it is to burn it all down,” director Todd Phillips told Entertainment Weekly when asked about having Arthur confess to his sins. “When those guards kill that kid in the [hospital] he realizes that dressing up in makeup, putting on this thing, it’s not changing anything. In some ways, he’s accepted the fact that he’s always been Arthur Fleck; he’s never been this thing that’s been put upon him, this idea that Gotham people put on him, that he represents. He’s an unwitting icon. This thing was placed on him, and he doesn’t want to live as a fake anymore — he wants to be who he is.”
Arthur’s decision to revoke the Joker is off-putting to Lady Gaga’s Lee, who spends the majority of the film trying to provoke the Joker persona to fully take over Arthur’s mind. She never calls Arthur by his real name until their last encounter where she leaves him now that it’s clear the Joker does not exist.
“The sad thing is, he’s Arthur, and nobody cares about Arthur,” Phillips said. “[She’s] realizing, ‘I’m on a whole other trip, man. You can’t be what I wanted you to be.'”
Phillips also stressed that this final encounter between Arthur and Lee is real and not imagined, as some fans have started to speculate on social media since the “Joker” sequel’s release. Given that Arthur imagined a fake romance with his neighbor Sophie (Zazie Beetz) in the first movie, it’s not unfounded to think some of his scenes with Lee might be imagined as well. That’s not the case in their final scene, as Phillips told EW that’s “actually, really happening.”
“Joker: Folie à Deux” is now playing in theaters nationwide from Warner Bros.
Best of Variety
Sign up for Variety's Newsletter. For the latest news, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Solve the daily Crossword
