‘Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes’ Star Kevin Durand Talks Proximus Caesar’s Future and Not Viewing Him as the Bad Ape
[This story contains spoilers for Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.]
Kevin Durand is all smiles right now. The Thunder Bay native doesn’t have the energy of an actor who’s nearly three decades into their career. If you didn’t know any better, his enthusiasm would lead you to believe that he’s a wide-eyed and bushy-tailed newcomer. With recent projects like Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Abigail and the upcoming reboot of The Naked Gun, it’s understandable why Durand is savoring this moment that harks back to when Lost introduced his unforgiving mercenary Martin Keamy in season four (2008).
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With Wes Ball’s Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes outperforming opening weekend box office expectations at $58.4 million, the long-term outlook for the sci-fi franchise is rather sunny right now, and despite his cliff-falling ending, Durand is not ruling out a return for his baddie, Proximus Caesar.
“Does Proximus crawl out of that ocean? You didn’t see his body. You just saw a big splash. He’s a gigantic, magnificent creature, and given the density of that beast, did he make it? I don’t know … but I think that there is a chance [Proximus survived] in Apes,” Durand tells The Hollywood Reporter.
In the film that follows up Rupert Wyatt and Matt Reeves’ Caesar-led trilogy of the 2010s, Durand’s character manipulates the benevolent ape’s words and teachings, so that he can enslave apes to carry out his greater mission of unlocking a vault filled with human technology and intelligence. But as actors behind villains often have to do, Durand found a way to defend his character’s point of view.
“He knew that apedom would end up in cages. They’d end up on plates, being eaten; they’d be slaughtered. They would also be experimented on in laboratories, and by any means necessary, as quickly as he could, he had to do what he had to do,” Durand explains. “He had to get all the apes of the land to his kingdom, so that they could achieve this goal of getting this information. I don’t think he enjoys that he’s had to do what he’s had to do, but he just doesn’t have a choice.”
Durand also cites real-world history to inform why Proximus wouldn’t want humans to regain power through the contents of the silo.
“You know what we’re like. We’re greedy, and we’re so selfish as a race. Look at the state of the world since the beginning of our time here, and it’s never stopped,” Durand says. “We’re always killing each other over the dumbest things: territory, interpretation of dogma. So I just dug into that, and I never thought of him as being bad. I just thought of him being a man on a mission or a bonobo on a mission.”
Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Durand also discusses how he found the movement and voice of a bonobo, before reminiscing about his time on Lost, as well as James Mangold’s 3:10 to Yuma set.
Well, congratulations on this moment you’re having.
Thank you! Look where I am right now. (Durand turns his camera around to show a picturesque view of Central Park.) I’m right on the edge of Central Park, and I just finished our crazy international press tour. It was fantastic. I also just did a live Peloton class, so I’m a bright red, but it was so fun. Most people celebrate [the end of a press tour] by having drinks, but I celebrated by hitting the Peloton because it makes me feel great. Alcohol is fun, but then I always feel so shitty, especially now at my age of 50. So I can’t drink alcohol anymore.
Since we’re on the subject of good health, can you still make a good egg?
(Laughs.) I, unfortunately, am not the culinary master in my house, but that Lost line, “I make good eggs,” was an improv. I just thought it would be funny if Martin Keamy was a great cook for some reason, and people liked it apparently.
I find it so interesting that these significant moments in your career, such as mercenary egg-maker Martin Keamy, all happened in and around labor stoppages. Season four of Lost collided with the 2007-08 WGA strike, and was shortened by two episodes. Abigail was interrupted by last year’s labor strikes, and there was likely some degree of impact on Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. So has that correlation crossed your mind at all?
It hasn’t, but I guess I’ve never really thought about having particular moments. I am just so grateful that the people keep hiring me to do this, and the parts seem to get better and better as I get older. So it’s fantastic, but I’ve never made that correlation. And, yeah, I guess that’s true, but there’ve been some really good ones in the really good times, too. It’s been a long career, and it feels like it went by in a snap of my fingers. I’m almost 30 years in, now.
Yeah, with nearly 30 years of footage on camera, did you still have to put yourself on tape for Proximus Caesar?
I put myself on tape with my wife [Sandra Cho]. We’re both gigantic fans, and [the last trilogy] is our favorite trilogy. We went to the theaters to see them, and we saw them at home as well. So when the audition came, it was kind of crazy. My mother actually laughed so hard when I told her that I got cast as the King of the Apes. She said, “Finally, three decades later, you’re perfectly cast.” (Laughs.)
Did you audition with the “wonderful day” monologue?
No, it was the scene where Noa comes to the dining hall, and I’m on my throne. That scene went through a bunch of different iterations, always keeping the same kind of heart to it. But when I read those words, I was like, “Oh my God, please let me get this one.”
Every actor probably dreams of having that big dramatic speech, so would you say that your introduction as Proximus scratched that itch for you?
The part, in general, scratched a giant itch for me. It’s the first time that I was able to use my body in that way and my love and my passion to transform. I get really bored with myself, so I love becoming these different humans or beings. It was honestly the most fun I’ve ever had in 30 years, and I’ve had a lot of fun. Another one that I had a lot of fun on was Abigail. I had two films in a row that I’m so proud of, and I got to work with these great people and fall in love with them and make these movies with them. I’m just so grateful to get to make these movies one after the other.
He twists the words of Caesar to enslave apes so that they can fulfill his greater ambitions. It’s more relevant if he’s purposefully misrepresenting Caesar, but does any part of him genuinely misunderstand his words? The latter wouldn’t excuse his actions, of course.
It all comes down to interpretation and the perspective of the narrative. I never think, “Oh, he’s a bad ape or a bad dude.” I was like, “Why is he doing this?” And, to me, he was always an incredibly smart ape that could perceive things far beyond any other of his kind could. He learned to read, and he read everything that he possibly could about humanity, from the inception of homosapiens on the planet Earth.
So he saw the patterns, and he was like, “Humans are a problem. They killed all the flora and fauna on the planet. They killed each other over interpretation of words. They just constantly go through the same damn thing, and they never seem to learn.” So he felt this pressure. He needed to get a hold of this information [in the vault], but if he let the humans get to it first, then the power paradigm would shift and humans would potentially get back into power.
And he knew that apedom would end up in cages. They’d end up on plates, being eaten; they’d be slaughtered. They would also be experimented on in laboratories, and by any means necessary, as quickly as he could, he had to do what he had to do. He had to get all the apes of the land to his kingdom, so that they could achieve this goal of getting this information. And he had to go to extremes, but he doesn’t think he’s wrong. I don’t think he enjoys that he’s had to do what he’s had to do, but he just doesn’t have a choice.
If humans get in the vault, I mean, you know what we’re like. We’re greedy, and we’re so selfish as a race. Look at the state of the world since the beginning of our time here, and it’s never stopped. We’re always killing each other over the dumbest things: territory, interpretation of dogma. So I just dug into that, and I never thought of him as being bad. I just thought of him being a man on a mission or a bonobo on a mission. (Laughs.)
Proximus correctly guessed that Mae (Freya Allan) didn’t tell Noa (Owen Teague) the truth about her mission and that other people used to be by her side. He also said Noa couldn’t trust her, and that became evident when she blew open the floodgates, killing a bunch of innocent apes in the process. Freya Allan delivered a valid defense of her character to me, but Proximus was ultimately right about her.
On the first day that I went to set, Noa and Freya were doing a scene … I still call [Owen Teague] Noa; we’re going to have dinner right now. But we still greet each other as apes, because of the way that we met on my first day. I came to ape school late, and I had my own individual ape school while they were already shooting.
So Owen then saw me after they yelled cut, and he approached me as Noa, but I had never aped around anyone other than our movement director Alain Gauthier. So I thought I was ready, but I was also kind of nervous. I was like, “God, this guy wants me to get into Proximus already?” And then, all of a sudden, my chest popped out, and I was like, “What is your name?” (Durand is now going in and out of character.) And he went, “Noa.” And I was like, “Noa, I have many things to tell you.”
So we went off and had this improv for 45 minutes, and then I explained to him my perspective. And by the end of that talk, Noa went from absolutely despising me to seeing what I was trying to do. He’s dealing with all of this goddamn pain because of what [Proximus’] apes did to Eagle Clan and to his father, but then he’s also looking at the bigger picture. And he was like, “Oh my God, what are we going to do?”
So I love contradictions like that. Yeah, he’s the big bad, but think about it at the end. You’re like, “Fuck. Look at the humans now. They got all the satellites working again. They’re coming back to fruition. What are the apes going to do? Proximus was right.” So it depends on who you’re rooting for, but I can’t help but imagine that most humans understand their own nature. I’m not saying I’m not optimistic about humans, but it’s very easy for me to side with Proximus on this, because, as an entire race — and I’m not saying everyone — we keep messing up.
Despite his nefarious ways, I do admire his respect for human achievement. The way he phrased our accomplishments reminded me that what we’ve done is pretty impressive from the point of view of another species.
He absolutely adores humans. It’s that thin line between love and hate. He lives on this precipice. Look at his kingdom, and look at all the homages to Rome. He loves humans, he loves humanity, but he understands their nature. He’s worked so incredibly hard to be as articulate as he can, speaking through this bonobo trachea and trying to be as eloquent as he possibly can by forcing that sound out. He’s trying to be human because he really loves them, but he doesn’t want them to be back in power again, because he knows that’s going to be very bad for apedom. So that’s what I love the most about this character. There’s this, “I love you so much, but I fucking hate you so much.” So, what a delicious thing to play.
Owen and I nerd out all the time. We’re so over the moon that we get to be a part of this lineage and help push this story along, and help human beings really look in the mirror without preaching. You could watch this movie with popcorn and kick back and choose to not look between the lines and absorb all of these themes and all of these messages. You could just enjoy the splendor of every vista. The work that Weta and Wes Ball did is glorious; they’re such miraculous world builders. So you could just take the film in that way. But if you choose to be open-minded and you let yourself really absorb it, I mean, man, the well runs so deep on these films, and they truly act as a mirror. So I couldn’t be any happier with this film.
Was there a moment during ape school where it all clicked into place? Did Alain or someone else offer insight that unlocked it all for you?
Well, everybody had ape school together for six weeks, but I came in the seventh week, so I was one-on-one with Alain. He’s just a tremendous artist and also a biologist. So he approached becoming an ape in a really scientific way. He was able to break down the physiological, biological and anatomical differences between a human and a bonobo. So we talked about how that would inform movement, and then we started to move around a room to explore what that would feel like and what it would look like. And, eventually, it started feeling really good.
He would ask me questions, and I would always answer as Kevin. And then, one day in week four, he asked me something, and I just went, “Yes, I believe that this feels good. I feel very good.” (Durand is now back in Proximus mode.) So Alain grabbed his phone and started filming, and then he sent it to Wes. And everybody was like, “There we go! There’s Proxy.” So, how luxurious is it to have four weeks of rehearsal to figure your shit out? You never get that. So by the time I went to camera, I felt ready.
I assumed that they had to modulate your voice to create the Proximus voice, but you clearly have no problem doing it dry.
(Durand remains in character.) It just came along very naturally, and I cannot stop. My wife is like, “Can you stop? You finished shooting a year and a half ago,” and I’m like, “Okay, sorry about that.” But then it just comes out again. (Laughs.) My daughter’s like, “Daddy, that’s kind of scary.” And I’m like, “Proximus wants to be your friend. Want to play?” And then we’ll go ape around the backyard. He’s a lot of fun.
Freya also told me that Mae originally showed up at the end of the movie to kill Noa. She actually pulled her gun on him while his back was turned. That scene now plays more as precautionary, but Proximus was still right.
Yeah, I like the way the narrative unfolded in the end. I think they pulled back a lot of the stuff and kept it between the lines. And hopefully, universe willing, everyone goes out to the theater and sees it. We just might get another chance to continue, and then we could slowly unleash more nuggets.
Wes told me he wants to release an extended cut someday.
He’s also releasing the mocap cut on the blu-ray, and it’s so cool that people will get to see that. There’s so much mystery, and people are kind of mystified by what’s happening. A lot of people think that we just voice the characters, but all the minutia and detail is there. You can see Owen thinking, and you can see me thinking. It’s so obvious to us that the apes are us, so it’ll be really cool for people to be able to see that. Even I want to see it.
But I’m sure all of you have additional material that you’d like to see restored in an extended cut.
Oh, sure. Actually, I think that most of everything I did is there, but when you’re in the trenches and you’re in the moment, who knows? After we left Australia, there was a whole year where they did all of that amazing VFX work in New Zealand. So I can’t wait. I’ll see this movie a hundred times.
So between the pesky eagles in the sky and a bloodthirsty ballerina vampire, which fatal adversary was the greater menace to you?
(Laughs.) I would have to say Abigail [in Abigail], because she actually succeeded in killing me, whereas, I don’t know about Proximus. Does Proximus crawl out of that ocean?
Yeah, we never saw a dead body.
You didn’t see his body. You just saw a big splash. He’s a gigantic, magnificent creature, and given the density of that beast, did he make it? I don’t know. But Abigail did succeed. She was sneaky. She did it through Kathryn Newton’s character, so I didn’t stand a chance in that one, but I think that there is a chance [Proximus survived] in Apes.
As I mentioned earlier, season four of Lost was shortened from 16 episodes to 14 episodes due to the WGA strike. Did that truncate your arc in any major way, or did things still shake out as they were supposed to?
Honestly, when I auditioned for Lost, they had seen me in 3:10 to Yuma, and they were like, “Get that guy in!” And when I went in and read, I didn’t know if I was doing more than one episode. No one told me anything, and I didn’t see any scripts until I was on a plane heading to Hawaii. I was shooting Wolverine in Sydney, and they would say, “Oh, Lost wants you back. We’ll try to work out the dates.” So I would sometimes see the script literally the day of or the night before. And when I first read that standoff scene with Ben Linus [Michael Emerson] and his daughter, oh my God, I just remember being like, “What is it happening? This is phenomenal. This is the best scene that I’ve ever gotten to do.” It really was at that point, and we just all fell in love over there. So I ended up showing up a lot in that season, and if any of it was planned, I certainly didn’t know about it. I was just so happy that they kept bringing me back. Keamy was a delicious guy to play, too.
Speaking of 3:10 to Yuma, long before pesky eagles and bloodthirsty ballerina vampires, rusty forks were the bane of your existence.
(Laughs.)
What do you recall from that day on James Mangold’s set?
Oh my God, Russell [Crowe] was so excited that day. He looked at me and he was like, “Today’s the day, mate.” (Durand does a solid Russell Crowe impression.) And I was like, “Oh God.” (Laughs.) And then the prop guy said, “Look, we don’t have any retractable forks, but Russ says that you’ll trust him to do it with a real fork. That sounds crazy to me, so are you okay with that?” And I was like, “Yeah, I trust him.” And he was like, “Really!?” And I was like, “No doubt.” And the guy was like, “Yeah, he’s the absolute best.” So Rusty [Crowe] kind of became my big brother, and I learned so much of what I know from him, both good and bad. That’s what he said to me. He was like, “Learn from the good and bad.” So I was like, “Yeah, he can fake stab me with a real fork. It’s fine.” (Laughs.)
Well, congrats again on Apes and Abigail. I’m going to go make some good eggs in your honor.
(Laughs.) Fantastic! I go back to Atlanta tomorrow to keep shooting The Naked Gun, and it’s been so fun.
***
Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is now playing exclusively in movie theaters.
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