‘Outer Banks’ Co-Creators Talk Season 4’s Shocking Finale Death & New Villain, Address Season 5 Burning Questions: “We Bring Everything Home”
SPOILER ALERT: The series includes details about Season 4 Part 2 of Netflix’s Outer Banks.
For the second time in four seasons, an Outer Banks finale ends with the Pogues mourning one of their own. But while John B, along with Sarah, turned up a few weeks after being presumed dead in the Season 1 finale, the death was real this time as JJ (Rudy Pankow) passed away in Morocco surrounded by his friends in the final minutes of the Season 4 closer after he had been stabbed to death by his father.
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On a show of high stakes where every member of the Pogue crew has found themselves in grave danger multiple times over the past four seasons, JJ’s killing was still a shocker that is sure to reverberate throughout Outer Banks‘ upcoming fifth and final season.
It was a culmination of a season that was focused on JJ who started off by putting Poguelandia 2.0 in jeopardy after betting (and losing) the last piece of El Dorado gold. Things escalated after JJ discovered that Chandler Groff was his biological father, making him a descendant from one of the richest Kook families in Kildare. Questioning his Pogue identity, JJ started spiraling out, going on a rampage after the Pogues were put on the verge of losing their home due to a diabolical rezoning plan by the Kooks.
As usual, the Pogues tracked down a major treasure — this time it was Blackbeard’s Blue Crown — only to lose it at the end while being chased by Dalia and her mercenaries. Fittingly, it was JJ who got the artifact for the gang before giving it to Chandler who had Kiara at knifepoint. JJ’s dad knifed him anyway having previously deceived him, framed him for murder and thrown him overboard to die. His excuse – JJ did not pull him out of a well Rafe had thrown him into (though JJ had showed him mercy by throwing him a jug of water).
At JJ’s grave, Kiara vows for revenge as the group, joined by unlikely adversary-turned-potential-ally Rafe, set off to find Chandler, avenge their friend’s death and take back what they feel is theirs.
In other Outer Banks Season 4 Part 2 developments; John B and Sarah are expecting — after Sarah had strongly rebuffed John B’s idea of starting a family earlier in the season — and almost get married; Pope is arrested for attacking a cop to prevent him from shooting JJ and almost becomes a Marine.
After hesitating once when pointing a gun at the mercenaries, Pope pulls the trigger the second time when Cleo is injured and can’t do it herself to kill the man who had murdered her surrogate father, Terrance.
In an interview with Deadline, Outer Banks co-creators/executive producers Jonas Pate, Josh Pate and Shannon Burke explain the decision to kill off one of the series’ most liked characters and point to clues they had planted about it from the start. They talk about the introduction of Outer Banks new super villain, Chandler. The trio also provide a status update and tease what fans can expect — and who may be back –in the recently picked up fifth and final season, which will wrap Pogues’ adventures.
But that may not be the end of the OBX universe as potential spinoffs are being explored. You can also check our story on Pankow and his castmates’ reaction to JJ’s demise.
JJ’s death
In a Netflix video vinnieyte about JJ’s death, which you can watch below, Josh Pate says, “It was always part of the plan for the series that JJ would eventually die. It was a very hard decision because he is such a great piece of the ensemble. But it was just a necessary arc of the series.”
Burke explained to Deadline why.
“The overarching plan was to begin with just some kids who wanted to have a good time all the time, and take them on a whole journey. One of them was going to end up dying, and pretty early on, we knew that was going to be JJ, he’s the most reckless. He is also the most beloved and, in one way, the most sacrificing and the most risk-taking. And this was going to be JJ’s year.”
This is a reference to the fact that every season of Outer Banks focuses on one of the original Pogues (+ Sarah), with John B, Pope and Sarah as subjects of the first three installments.
“We started out [Season 4] with JJ doing a lot of reckless and frustrating things for the group,” Burke continued. “And then we wanted him to redeem that and be in a good place with Kiara and with the other Pogues and ready to sacrifice even more and to have the most tragic ending.”
Still, while there are high stakes on the show and there have been deaths, JJ was one of the kids, just out of adolescence, and his show is losing its innocence with his passing.
“The kids, they’re getting older,” Burke said. “We wanted to begin in a place of innocence and then go to a place that at least one point to go is really dark for them, and then have them come out of it. That’s the overarching plan for the show. It was always JJ that was going to be, we just weren’t sure how we were going to play it.”
The way they ended up playing it was like a Greek tragedy, with a father killing his son.
Chandler the Terrible
In Season 4, Outer Banks introduced a pure evil character in Chandler Groff. He won, he got the crown, but he still killed his son in cold blood, unprovoked, much like Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible murdered his son. Chandler mentioned JJ’s refusal to rescue him from the well but Chandler had done worse to his son, including throwing him overboard and framing him for murder, so why did he have to kill him?
“He kills JJ after he has the crown, it’s completely pointless; it’s banal, almost,” Jonas Pate said. “When we were conceiving the [Chandler] character, we zeroed in on the dark triad personality traits and wanted to create almost a sociopathic character that would have hard enough edges. That’s because the fourth season was a complete reset from the first three seasons, which kind of function as like a trilogy in some way. We needed to re-conjure a formidable villain quickly, so we tried to conjure the worst one we could think of.”
As for a possible motive, “Ultimately, JJ wants to give up the treasure because he doesn’t care about it in comparison to the things that matter to him,” Jonas Pate said. “Chandler hates JJ’s joy. He is such an unhappy person that he sees the JJ actually doesn’t need it, and that drives him insane.”
We will get more clarity on what drove Chandler to commit the ultimate parent’s sin in Season 5:
“You’re right to point out that it seems gratuitous, and some of the work of Season 5 is going to be going back and understanding why he did it,” Burke said. “The story’s not over, we’re part way through. It’s all potential [for Season 5] but I’m pretty sure that’s going to be developed, about why he had to do it.”
Season 5 theme, main subject and timeline
The last word in the finale was “revenge,” said by Kiara. Is that the theme of Season 5?
“That’s where we start but I think it will go through different iterations,” Jonas Pate said. “If you look at The Count of Monte Cristo, one of the greatest revenge stories, you start with revenge, but it goes to understanding and forgiveness, so revenge goes on to different iterations of that, but revenge is where we start for sure.”
Will the fifth and final season be centered on Kiara, the only member of the original core group who hasn’t had their turn and would that mean that there would be no time for sixth Pogue, Cleo, to get the spotlight?
“Yes and no. Kiara is going to be a big focus, but we definitely want to give more time to Cleo too,” Josh Pate said. “It’s a question of bandwidth in the show that we have with all these stories, so it’s hard to say, but we definitely want to develop Cleo and honor her character as well.”
“We have a good plan for Cleo, it’s absolutely true,” Jonas Pate added. “Kiara is going to be the spine the season the way JJ was of this season. But it’s the last season, so hopefully we’ll be able to bring everybody to a conclusion and to get in everything we want. Like Josh said, there’s always bandwidth issues but we have good plans for Clio, so I think we will be able to tell her story.”
As for Season 5’s status, it is now being written, with a tentative production start date in the spring. Based on previous seasons’ schedule, that means that Season 5 may not hit Netflix until 2026.
Season 5 clues about Rafe & Sofia, Rose & Wheezie, Dalia & Her Crew: “All the stories are wrapped up”
After Rafe largely traveled in different circles for the first three seasons, only occasionally intersecting with the Pogues — most notably in Kooks-Pogue clashes, when he stole the cross of Santo Domingo and ended up as a Singh hostage with Kiara — he unexpectedly joined forces with them to track down Chandler after he had swindled him out of $400K.
Outer Banks EPs would not say whether Rafe — played by Drew Starkey who is currently blowing up with Queer — is now a permanent member of the Pogue gang and whether he would stay on his current redemption arc but confirmed that not only Rafe but also his fiancé Sofia –with whom he broke up via a cell call from the middle of the desert (?!) in the finale — will be back next season.
“We have plans for both of them. We love Drew and we think he can do anything, so he’s heavily involved in our seconds for next year,” Josh Pate said. Rafe and Sofia’s story “will continue.”
Somewhat peculiarly, after Dalia and her men were at Pogues’ heels up until JJ got his hands on the Blue Crown, they suddenly disappeared after JJ’s fatal encounter with his father. But they will be back.
“We love those characters. They’re all still in play for sure in Season 5,” the EPs said.
Two Season 1-3 characters, Sarah and Rafe’s stepmother Rose and sister Wheezie, went AWOL in Season 4 but expect to get an update on them — and tie up other loose ends — next season.
“A hundred percent. When we get to the end, I think everyone’s going to be satisfied that we bring everything home and all the stories are wrapped up.”
The Pogues may finally get what’s theirs in the final season
So far, there has been a new treasure every season (along with some overlap as the Pogues deal with unfinished business): the Royal Merchant gold, the Cross of Santo Domingo, El Dorado, the Blue Crown. The EPs would not reveal whether there would be one last new treasure hunt but given the history of the show, that seems like a good guess.
And while the Pogues have been 4-for-4 finding treasures that numerous others had failed to discover for centuries, they have little to show for it, with everything stolen from them so far besides a sliver of the El Dorado gold they were able to keep.
After four seasons, their misfortune is getting a little depressing, so, will the Pogues finally get a win in Season 5? And is the Merchant Gold, which the late Ward had expressed intention to share, still in play for them?
“Those are great questions. We definitely are looking forward for the Pogues to not lose, we like it too. So it’s in our minds for sure,” the EPs said. “And all those things you bring up, it’s not like we’ve forgotten them; we’re totally aware.”
The sins of the fathers
Outer Banks has been all about fathers with prominent arcs about John B.’s dad, Sarah and Rafe’s dad and now JJ’s dad. What about the moms? We hadn’t heard anything about Sarah and Rafe’s mother until Rafe gave Sofia her ring at the end of Season 4, an indication that she may not be alive. We will likely find out more next season.
The EPs declined to comment but called Deadline’s “mom’s Season 5 arc” inquiry a “great question” and a topic that has been discussed.
Where are the healthy parent-teen relationships?
In the OTX universe, the Pogues dropped out of high school to pursue adventure and live together. Also, by Season 4, none of them have a meaningful relationship with their parents who are not portrayed flatteringly and are largely out of the picture.
Is there hope for a more of a positive relationship between the Pogues and their parents — especially now that two of them, John B and Sarah, are becoming parents themselves?
“I think we’re going try to push for closure on a lot of different factors with a lot of the parents,” Josh Pate said, noting that the creators draw on their own experience with their teen children (but not so much on their relationship with their parents.) in writing the show. “Modeling positive family stuff is an ambition, and we’re going to try to square that circle with some of the parents.”
The Pogues’ circle of life
After JJ saves Sarah from drowning, John B. asks him to become his and Sarah’s unborn baby’s godfather. With JJ now dead, it seems fitting for Sarah and John B’s baby — the first next-generation Pogue-let as Pope called it — to be named after him. (Conveniently, the JJ moniker works perfectly for both a boy and a girl.)
The EPs obviously would not touch the issue, calling it “an ultimate spoiler.”
Bring It On Home
One thing the trio confirmed is that the Pogues will return home to OBX next season after they presumably exact revenge and finish their overseas treasure-hunting business.
Sense of Foreboding
Turns out Outer Banks had warned us about JJ’s death from the start.
“I think the show has always had a sense of mortality. John B’s had those types of voiceovers from the beginning, and there’s always been a sense of trying to make the most of the time that you have, that’s an ongoing theme: Have a good time all the time. And [JJ’s death] was an example of a closing chapter of that,” Burke said.
Rudy Pankow was on board with JJ’s demise
“We knew that that was a story point we were going to play at some point; Rudy understood that it would be a powerful way to end the character,” Jonas Pate says in the Inside Look feature, which you can watch below.
Adds Burke, “He embraced it quickly, he said, yeah that is a great ending and he immediately started to plan how to plan it.”
“We wanted to honor it as much as we could because we love the character as much as the fans do,” Josh Pate says.
JJ’s final scene & that emotional montage
In the video, Jonas Pate says that “Having that moment before JJ passes was really what the show is about.”
He explained to Deadline what that means.
“The montage that looks backwards is a celebration of life and really summarizes the amazing times that they had and that they wouldn’t really trade any of it. That’s why it seems to echo what I feel the show is about.”
“And the way it happens in the end, it’s really about sacrifice. In the Kook and Pogue thing, the Kooks are about greed, and the Pogues are about friendship and sacrifice, and that last moment is about JJ’s relationship with Kiara and his friendship and sacrifice, and so the way he dies, it’s wrapped up in that.”
Bracing for fans’ wrath
After the Season 4 finale is released and fans find out what happens to JJ, the Pates and Burke may want to go into witness protection.
“I’m changing my name,” Jonas Pate quipped. “We don’t know what’s going happen, we really don’t. Wish us luck.”
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