Ridley Scott Will Never Stop Directing: “Shut Up and Go Make Another Movie”
Ridley Scott gives a tight smile when he’s told he “crushed it” making his long-awaited sandal-and-toga sequel Gladiator II.
“I know,” Scott replies. “You never count your chickens … but sometimes, you know.”
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The director’s commercial instincts are honed by 47 years of ups and downs in Hollywood. The British filmmaker got his start as feature film director with 1977’s The Duelists and has been working ever since. This month, Scott turns 87 and has never been more productive, having ground out three historical action epics over the last few years — 2021’s The Last Duel, 2023’s Napoleon, and now Gladiator II, which is generating early buzz as a likely hit that might score Scott his first Oscar. He’s also become more prolific as a producer via his company Scott Free, generating a storm of projects which include this summer’s surprise hit Alien: Romulus and Amazon’s upcoming series Blade Runner 2099.
“I entered Hollywood when I was 40 years old,” says Scott, marveling a bit at his own late start in the business. “[Steven] Spielberg was 19. George [Lucas] was 20. And Francis [Ford Coppola] was 22 or something. They were all from exalted film schools. All I had was a very good show reel of my television commercials.”
Sitting in the conference room of his West Hollywood office, Scott looks comfortable and minimalist his in a matching black sweatshirt and sweatpants. His only splash of color is the bright orange band of his Breitling wristwatch, and its model name is perfect: “Professional Endurance.” It’s hard to imagine a more fitting description of Scott’s career across blockbuster hits (The Martian), groundbreaking fan favorites (Blade Runner), and occasional misfires (1492: Conquest of Paradise), along with soldiering on following the personal hardship of losing his brother, director Tony Scott.
Fans are increasingly fascinated by how much you’re doing. Is it annoying people are surprised you’re still so productive at your age? I assume none of this feels like work to you.
Are you kidding? I wouldn’t be doing it [if directing felt like work]. It’s my passion and therefore my pleasure. I think it actually keeps me going. I’ve damaged myself with too much tennis. I’ve got dodgy knees and I’m now getting injections in them — I can’t be the old guy staggering around the set because when we were doing Gladiator II we’re in 112 degrees and I have to be out there.
Do you feel most at home when you’re on a film set?
No. I mean, I am one of those people where [taking a vacation is] out of the question. My holiday is to [enjoy a] weekend. I go home and paint all weekend. Painting is a bit like playing golf. You get a hole-in-two and think, “I can do that again.” But you can’t for another week. Painting is constantly fighting the canvas and I love that.
So what happens when you stop working? How do you feel?
Since [the original] Gladiator, I think I’ve done 16 movies — which is kind of a lot in 20 years. I always envied being an actor and you can do two or three movies a year. They don’t have to do any prep except learn their lines. I’ve got to have it written, budget it, cast it, shoot it, make it, edit it, and deliver it. The actor just has to turn up and do his fucking job.
But it seems like you’re working more than ever now.
Yeah. I got good at cutting away all the crap. You can’t have 40 projects in development. That’s a bad idea. I usually have three or four. And I think that’s why I have a great relationship with Fox. I’ve done 13 films for Fox, which may be the highest any director would do for a studio. It’s a bit like opening a restaurant. You better eat there every night. So I eat at my table every night with Fox. I think that’s why I’ve been valuable to them. You win some, you lose some, but overall they have been rewarded for what I do. Because they’re now Fox-Disney, there’s now this tricky balance of how extreme they can go, and I respect that.
So is your attitude at this point is that you’ll stop directing when you’re dead?
When I go [makes croaking noise]. I mean, Clint [Eastwood] is 94.
But his new film, Juror #2, is being considered by some as his final movie.
Well, yeah, but he’s fucking 94! I’m 86 now, so I’ve still got a few to go.
What’s your take on Quentin Tarantino saying he’s going to retire after making his tenth movie?
I don’t believe it.
Same. If you love to do something, and you’re great at it, you might stop, and then you get sucked back in.
Exactly. I don’t fucking believe that bullshit. Shut up and go make another movie. Quentin wrote a few things for my brother. They got along great. I’m not sure I’ve met him.
Was it weird for you to watch Top Gun: Maverick (which was directed by Joseph Kosinski; the original Top Gun was directed by Tony Scott, who committed suicide in 2012).
No. They asked me to [direct] it and I said, “I don’t want to follow my brother.” Tony was always interested in today. A lot of my stuff is either historic, fantasy or science fiction. Tony didn’t like fantasy — things like Alien or Blade Runner or Legend. By the way, few people saw Legend, but Tim Curry was fantastic in it.
When researching you for this, I literally exclaimed “What?!” when I read you haven’t yet won an Oscar. How important is that to you?
Well, I’ve been knighted twice.
I didn’t know you could be knighted multiple times.
I just got the latest one, which is the biggest, where you’re a Knight of the British Empire. So I had to go to St. Paul’s Cathedral and met [Prince William] and then [King Charles]. Look, my reward is being allowed to do what I do.
But still.
No-no-no. Pauline Kael in The New Yorker killed me stone dead with her Blade Runner review. It was four pages of destruction. I never met her. I was so offended. I framed those pages and they’ve been in my office for 30 years to remind me there’s only one critic that counts and that’s you. I haven’t read critiques ever since. Because if it’s a good one, you can get a swollen head and forget yourself. And if it’s a bad one, you’re so depressed that it’s debilitating.
I’m curious, after you’re knighted, does anything actually change in your life?
Only if somebody gets tricky and then I sign the note rudely [as “Sir Ridley Scott”]. Otherwise I don’t use it. But, of course, I respect it.
Is there a movie you’ve made that you think you should have gotten an Oscar for? (Scott lost for best director for Gladiator in 2000 when Steven Soderbergh won for Traffic).
Not really. There’s always a reason why not. I don’t know how the award system works other than we are voted on by our peers, right? I think there are 19,000 “peers” in the Director’s Guild. Are they 19,000 directors? I’m not going to comment on that. I don’t do a film thinking I’m going to get an Academy Award. I haven’t been to the awards since Gladiator.
You mentioned when we were talking earlier that your competitors in the 1980s were [British directors] Adrian Lyne and Alan Parker. Who do you think your closest competitor is now?
There’s not one, really, because we’re not in competition anymore. Everything is such an island of investment and an island of expectation, and no one fucking knows. There’ve been a couple of films this year that baffled me that they were so successful. Gladiator II definitely signals it could be quite a large success. It’s almost got everything you need for that.
Do you have relationships with other top iconic directors like Steven Spielberg and James Cameron?
Not really. Cameron’s always been really nice with me. Spielberg and I go as far back as him doing Munich. The guy I occasionally drop a note to is Michael Mann. Because Michael said, “I know you’re going to do a sword and sandal movie, and I know they’ve historically been ridiculous.” And he sent me [early footage] from The Insider and said, “Watch this guy called Russell Crowe.” I met Russell in here [Scott nods to the conference room]. Russell talked about being overweight endlessly. I said, “I believe you’re going to be able to lose weight,” and he did.
You also said earlier you regret not getting an ownership stake in the IP of the Alien and Blade Runner franchises — unlike how Cameron and Spielberg have done with some of their work.
I made Alien and Blade Runner, but then I moved on. I should have locked them up — as Spielberg would have with Jurassic Park, and everything he does, and Cameron has done. Studios paid for them, but there’s a way of locking yourself into [ownership] during the negotiation. I watched Alien 2, 3 and 4 and realized, “Oh, you just ran that firmly into the ground.” Then I went back to [former 20th Century Fox chief Tom Rothman] and said, “Listen, there’s a way out. We should resurrect Alien with Prometheus.” They made half a billion dollars — by now probably a billion with all the resales. It’s not what happens at the box office, it’s what happens after the box office. Then I went back with Alien: Covenant, and that was big and ambitious and maybe too intellectual to play as well. It still did $250 million, and I still stupidly didn’t lock it up. I don’t blame me, because I’m busy. I blame a couple other people, which is why we parted company.
I have to circle back here because in terms of “running Alien into the ground,” you included “Alien 2” with 3 and 4, and, obviously, many fans (myself included) love the second movie, Cameron’s Aliens. So I caught you.
[Grins mischievously] Nah. Jim said to me, “I’ve watched fucking Alien 19 times. I can never be as frightening. The cat’s out of the bag, we’ve seen the shark. So I’m going to go more military.” And that’s what he did. But it was sweet that he said that. [Aliens] was fun. And then three and four just evaporated. And ironically, with that evaporation, they had the “help” of digital. Alien had no digital at all. It was just a guy in a rubber suit.
I saw your 1979 original on the big screen a few years back and I could not believe how well it holds up in a theater — the visuals, the sound design, how much the ship is a living, breathing character that’s like an extension of the creature…
It’s better than any of ‘em. You can smell when it’s real.
People keep wondering if there will be a sequel to Covenant. But it occurred to me after watching Romulus that the next movie could be both. Both films ended with ships headed to a planet we’ve never been to. There’s no reason those characters couldn’t end up in the same place.
Covenant is the best one [for a sequel] because it leaves the girl in the [cryo pod] and [Michael Fassbender’s killer android] David has alien eggs and 2,000 colonists hanging around. It’s a perfect beginning.
A few questions about Gladiator II: How long was your first cut of the film?
It ended around 3:40. I know that’s unrealistic. I think with the titles it’s about 2:33, so the film itself is about 2:20. I wanted to put the opening titles at the beginning, not at the end. But they ran two-and-a-half minutes — which is a long time to look at a black screen. So I called up [animator Italian artist Gianluigi Toccafondo] who did my [Scott Free vanity card animation] 20 or 30 years ago and asked, “Are you still alive and want to do this?” I had him animated the elements from Gladiator. So now you’re “being entertained” before [the action starts].
So could there be a longer version released at some point? Like you did with Napoleon?
Yeah, later. Maybe I’d rather get into Gladiator III. There’s already an idea. I’ve always had this idea based on The Godfather Part II…
What performance in Gladiator surprised you the most?
My job is to spot actors. I use a very good casting directors, but when I’m prepping something, I’ve already got somebody in mind. I binge TV and saw this thing, Normal People, and thought: “This kid [Paul Mescal] is interesting,” and, “Fuck me, he looks like Richard Harris.” Suddenly it came together: “This is Lucius.” And from that I asked him, “Do you want to do the film?”
How do you think Paul’s performance compares to Russell Crowe’s?
It’s a different direction. They’re both theatrical. Paul is very much a theater actor, that’s his thing. He asked me, “You like theater?” I said, “No, I fall asleep.” He just laughed.
How was it working with Denzel?
Well, we’ve done one already, American Gangster. That’s actually one of my favorite movies. We were right in the middle of Harlem and Denzel was like, “Do you know what you’re doing?” “Of course I know what the fuck I’m doing.” “Do you know about this music?” “Of course I do.” Once he saw I knew what I was doing, he was very sweet. With [Gladiator II], I think he was a bit shocked by the scale. How could he not be? Of course, I’m used to it.
My unit was 1,200 personnel and you run it like an army. You have to. One of the first things I said to Paul was, “This is all for you. Ignore them all. You can’t be frightened. They’re here to help you.” Then I walk in knowing exactly what I’m doing that day. Every morning around a table we’re all, “We’re doing that, that, that — any problems?” I use eight-to-eleven cameras, which means we’re moving eight-to-eleven times faster.
What pisses you off when making a movie?
Not a lot — now. I think I spent a lot of time trying to prove that I do know what I’m doing. I try never to thrust that on anyone. But I do know, and that is a real thrill to me. It’s like getting into the Formula One and you’re off in a car and you better know how to take the bends. And what I’ve found over the years was the best investment I ever made in my career was going to art school. I was academically disastrous, but I could draw inordinately well. So I was at art school for seven years, then went to work for the BBC where I met directors and — it’s unkind of me to say — but they weren’t very good. So I was in there doing my sets and I would see the director’s plan and I started to suggest how to shoot the set and I got told to fuck off and mind my own business. My outspoken character paid off because they eventually said, “Do you want to do a BBC directors course?” That was the beginning.
What are you like on a set? Are you nice? Are you demanding? Are you Napoleonic?
No. I’m trying to be funny. Always.
Really? That’s interesting. How is that valuable?
Well, everyone laughs. So everyone is a target. Just no favoritism. It is a bit like running a ship.
Your next film is a Bee Gees biopic, which seems unusual for you. What draws you to that one?
I like being on thin ice, because if I’m on thin ice, then I’m already paying attention. I haven’t handled the physical process of movement and music [before in a film]. There’s nothing worse than an actor trying to be a rock star, and there’s nothing worse than a rock star trying to be an actor. Very few have done it, though I think Bradley [Cooper] did it pretty well [in A Star is Born]. I met [Bee Gees singer] Barry Gibb a month ago and I met Barry 50 years ago — so that was a fucking time warp…
You also have TV shows based on your movies coming out now (with Amazon’s Blade Runner 2099 from Silka Luisa and FX’s Alien: Earth from Noah Hawley). How do you feel about your big cinematic properties now being interpreted by others for the small screen?
I’ve created the pace visually for a while. I know exactly what I’ve done and how it has been influential, because I keep seeing it — “Oh, there’s me … there’s me…” It was annoying initially, but now it’s amusing and healthy. Like [Hawley] has gone down that route and definitely respected the original Alien. And from that, I can’t hope for anything more other than to keep it alive. I don’t care what the platform is. I’m keen to go home and watch it. All these subjects are embalmed forever and that’s very healthy.
Do you have a specific shot from all your films that you’re the most proud of?
The opening shot of Los Angeles in Blade Runner, which I think is terrific — go fuck yourself, Pauline. Usually it’s linked with a sound and that sound is linked with the guy I just adored — [the film’s composer] Vangelis. I also worked with Vangelis again on a film I’m very proud of, 1492, with Gérard Depardieu. The problem with Gérard is he doesn’t speak very good English and I didn’t have the heart to say, “Gérard we need to [re-record all your lines].” I’m trying to resurrect 1492 because it’s so beautifully shot and acted and scored. I’m trying to resurrect it as a four-hour [movie] for a streaming platform. Now if I asked, “Gérard, can we ADR you with Kenneth Branagh?” he’d probably say, “Yeah, of course.”
Are there any other previous projects that you feel deserve revisiting?
The Counselor, to me, was the best dialogue I’ve ever had. Cormac McCarthy wrote the script, and he brought it to me with [producer] Nick Wechsler. I said, “I’ll do it now, but it has to be now.” And from that, I got it cast in two weeks — Michael Fassbender, Brad Pitt, Javier Bardem, Penélope Cruz, Cameron Diaz … they were all fighting to do these parts. I got some disastrous reviews, I’m told. It was very good film, but too dark for the average person. I think the dialogue is beautiful.
This has been really great. Is there anything else that you would like to add?
I miss my brother.
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