Telluride: Zoe Salda?a, Selena Gomez and Karla Sofía Gascón on ‘Emilia Pérez,’ Breaking Barriers and Yearning to Be Seen Differently (Exclusive)
On Sunday, for the first time since the Telluride Film Festival’s North American premiere of Jacques Audiard’s one-of-a-kind musical Emilia Pérez on Friday, the three principal stars of the top-tier Oscar contender — Zoe Salda?a, Karla Sofía Gascón and Selena Gomez — sat down for an extensive group interview about their lives, their careers and the film for which they and costar Adriana Paz were jointly awarded the Cannes Film Festival’s best actress prize in May.
Speaking to The Hollywood Reporter, the ladies reflected on the special bond that they formed while co-creating Audiard’s film, which revolves around a frustrated lawyer and a cartel leader who recruits her to help carry out a covert operation without the cartel leader’s spouse finding out.
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They also discussed — candidly and, at times, emotionally — the different hurdles they each faced en route to Emilia Pérez; the most daunting aspects of playing their characters in the film; and the ways in which the project is already reshaping their careers, and has the potential to bring about even greater changes.
The comments of Gascón, 52, Salda?a, 46, and Gomez, 32, can be read in the transcript below, which has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity, and reflects a translator’s rendition of Spanish-speaker Gascón’s words.
I’ve observed many selfies, hugs and kisses between the three of you this weekend! Can you talk about the bond that you share? I imagine it formed during the making of the movie, and perhaps was rekindled at Cannes, but even three months after that, you seem to really enjoy being with each other.
SELENA GOMEZ I’m so grateful to have women around me that lift me up in every way. And yes, I have a special connection with these women. I feel so grateful that I get to go on this journey with them. We’re also happy for each other and we cheer each other on, and I love that. That can be rare.
ZOE SALDA?A I think that the award that we all received in Cannes was only possible because of the collaboration and camaraderie that we had. Everybody had their own respective journeys, of course. But we were rooting for each other from the beginning, and that was palpable. And for that to be seen and recognized? It’s really nice.
KARLA SOFíA GASCóN We are a nice family. I’m so happy to be associated with these amazing people and actresses. And we’ve gotten to see each other every five minutes here in Telluride, which is such an incredible place! We’re in the middle of these high mountains, with incredible greenery all around us, and cinemas full of people. I never suspected that I could find cinemas so crowded in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere at the far end of Colorado.
I want to go back to the very beginning, if we can, and talk about how this film was pitched to each of you, because I think it’s — in the best way — complicated to explain it to someone even after seeing it…
GASCóN They did a lot of work to show us what we would need to do in the movie. They had already pre-recorded something that I would label a video novel — there was the music; there were the dialogues, acted out — and this gave us a deeper idea of what we needed to do.
Zoe, I read something in which you said the film was originally intended to be more of an opera?
SALDA?A Well, first, just going back to what you said, “when they pitched you this movie” — we were pitched to Jacques. (Laughs.)
GOMEZ Yeah, that’s true.
SALDA?A Jacques doesn’t pitch you anything. Jacques shares with you his excitement, and then, if he invites you along, you say “yes.” It was an opera, and they were all going to have their own journeys, but there was going to be an intertwining along the way. Once I heard the songs, as an American person, I was like, “Well, this sounds like a musical.” But once I read the script, I realized, “It’s an opera.” But it kept evolving — throughout the journey of us rehearsing with Jacques, then learning the choreography, recording our songs, shooting, and then going back to the studio, these songs kept evolving as our characters kept growing. And Jacques never allowed any of us — even himself — to get in the way of that. And that process was quite scary, because there was a lot of improvising.
GOMEZ No, it’s very true.
Selena, you’ve been acting for your whole life. Have you ever been a part of any other project that evolved in a way similar to this one?
GOMEZ I had a similar feeling when I did [Harmony Korine’s 2012 film] Spring Breakers. What I mean by that is because of the way Harmony directs, I felt challenged as an actor. That’s when I realized I had the bug, and that I’d rather be a part of something in the smallest way with the greatest filmmakers and actors and wonderful people I could meet, than needing to be the center of attention.
I heard somewhere that when Jacques approached you, it was because he had seen and liked you in Spring Breakers, but didn’t really know anything else about you. Is that right?
GOMEZ That’s correct, yes.
What did you make of that?
GOMEZ I thought it was really refreshing, and it made me feel like I earned the part. Like Zoe said, it’s Jacques who picked us — we were the ones begging — so it was really exciting.
Karla, in America people are just getting to know you, but you’ve been acting for a long time. Can you explain what was going on in your life and career at the time that this film first crossed your radar?
GASCóN I was doing what any actress does: I was doing the best I could every day — and my life was definitely much more tranquil than it is now! [laughs] I was working in Mexico. I had just finished shooting a Netflix series indeed called Rebelde. And I was able to go to the supermarket and do my own grocery shopping. Then this whole whirlwind started. It’s a dream. I don’t know if it’s going to turn into a nightmare …
GOMEZ No!
SALDA?A No!
GASCóN Or stay a dream.
Karla, Jacques has said that meeting you really made him reimagine the character that you ended up playing, and that speaking with you helped him to provide a more sensitive and accurate depiction of the trans experience…
GASCóN As an actress, I was given a character that is incredible, with such an arc — it’s something that any actor or actress would dream of coming across in their life, a kind of character that Marlon Brando or Meryl Streep or Al Pacino or Javier Bardem would play. I never thought that something like that would come into my life. The role was just too wonderful to be true. When I had my very first meeting with Jacques, for me, it was love at first sight — like when you meet the girl of your dreams, and you stare into her little eyes, and you think she’s perfect, that was exactly what happened between the two of us. And then when we started building the movie. Jacques is the kind of filmmaker that builds a movie little by little. He’s very open to changes. And when I came into the picture, and then Zoe and Selena, he composed the film around our strengths. He has this uncanny talent to identify people’s strengths and build on them, which draws the best out of his actors and actresses. So yes, the story changed when I came into the picture, but not so much because of me. All I did was do what I’ve done my entire life: the best I could.
Zoe and Selena, I know that your family roots are in Spanish-speaking places. Selena, you’ve sung a bit in Spanish. But have either of you ever previously been asked to act in Spanish as much as in this film? And was it exciting or daunting or something?
SALDA?A No, but it was always a wish. It’s my native tongue. But the older I’ve gotten, I’ve found it’s like ballet — if you don’t use it, you lose it. So I jumped at the opportunity to be able to do this, and to combine all the mediums of art that I love, that I watch and that I live for. It was like God was listening. I never thought that something like this was going to ever come my way, so when it did I went all in.
GOMEZ I was very terrified to meet Jacques. I probably rehearsed for three months, and I didn’t think I’d get this role because I’m not fluent. When I got on board, I started working with Jacques and, with the help of everyone else, started figuring out what my character could be that would best suit me. We found this really good middle-ground of me [her character] being younger [than her character’s husband, played by Gascón] and having family in America [hence her character’s tendency to speak English]. And that’s very true to me even now [during our interview, listening to Gascón speak Spanish] — I can understand some of it. I’m part of that generation, I guess, where Latinx [people living in America are] half in, half out. It’s something, like Zoe said, that you have to practice every day. But I do appreciate who I am and where I came from.
I’d like to ask each of you about some of the other specific challenges that you faced. Karla, you play Emilia both before and after her transition. I wondered if that, for a trans actress, was daunting, painful, or just part of the job?
GASCóN For me, all of it was challenging. I had to give 300 percent of myself. It’s a movie in which I sing, and I’m not a singer. It’s a movie in which I dance, and I move like Robocop. I had to change my voice twice, because even in the Emilia register [as opposed to the Manitas register], she speaks with much higher-pitched tones than I do. So the movie was full of challenges for me — but that’s why one is an actress or an actor. You do it so that you’re able to insert yourself into other people’s lives; and then, thanks to them [those characters], and the help of others, you evolve. So that wasn’t something that gave me fear. Rather, it’s something that allowed me to sharpen my chops. And I put a lot of myself into my character, so what truly cost me is leaving the character. I was deeply immersed into the abyss that is Emilia Pérez. So the most challenging part for me was actually getting out of the character.
A quick follow-up, Karla. Movies are rarely shot in sequence, but I can see that posing real issues for you and your performance. Were you having to go back and forth between the pre-transition and post-transition character, or were you able to shoot all of one part and then the other?
GASCóN We did try to shoot it as chronologically as possible, but as you know, when you’re shooting a movie, that’s impossible to do all the time. There were many times where we had to go back and forth, where I had to do the transition to Manitas and then go back to Emilia in the present, and then to Emilia in the past several times. But I found that to be a lot of fun. This is what makes me want to be an actress. When I would sit down in the make-up chair and see the prosthesis that they would put on me, I was so impressed. I would look at myself and say, “Wow, this is why I chose to do this job, to put myself into another person’s skin and to understand another person better.”
Zoe, I know you have a background in dance, but even so, that big opening number, in which you also sing, must have been a big undertaking. And I read that you had very little rehearsal time?
SALDA?A There was rehearsal — not as extensive as we would want to have in order for us to be able to do this with our eyes closed — but that is what made way for just the nuances that would come up. Sometimes when you over-rehearse something, it just becomes stale. And even performances can become stale if you don’t rediscover them. So Jacques kept us on our feet, in that sense. But also, I think he knew that he wasn’t done writing the story. Sometimes he would just get up and leave, and you’re like, “Where’s he going?” Sometimes he would send you an email in the middle of the night, because he was up and something came to him. So he was constantly living with this story, and that inspired us all to live with our characters. And there were things that were coming up for me about Rita. I recognize her. So many women are like her — women that live around the abuse and misuse of power by men, that live as quiet warriors, that always have to get things done — and their life is more real in their imagination than it is in real life. Rita navigated this relationship with power. She was drawn to it, and yet she hated it, defending all these crooks around her. So this thing that she has with Emilia was: “What would happen if I get really close to a power that is so big and violent and can hurt me? What if it works? What if I pull it off? Can it free me?” It was always a question. Every day, things kept coming up. That’s what led me to sometimes go home and get in an Epsom salt bath and go, “I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing but I’m just going to do it. I’m just going to feel it. I’m not going to think about it. I’m just going to be moldable.” In the end it was like, “Don’t fucking think. Just feel.”
Selena, I imagine that singing — which we get to hear you do in this film, most notably with “El Camino” — might have been a little less daunting of an assignment for you than for the others. So other than that, what, for you, was the most daunting thing that you had to figure out?
GOMEZ I guess kind of all of it. I really did my best in my audition, and I hadn’t heard anything, so I really didn’t think that I would get it. When I did, I felt like I needed to let go of everything, so I stopped working on my music and anything else, and solely focused on this. And the music [that she performs] in this movie would make me feel better, because I am comfortable in that area, but it was still a little daunting to go into a space where I didn’t speak the same language as the director [French] and I wasn’t fluent Spanish. Every day I’d wake up and rehearse the lines over and over again. And I’d call, in the middle of the night, my Spanish teacher. That part was probably the most daunting, but it was also fun.
Finally, let’s talk about what the response to the film has meant to each of you. There was the shared best actress prize in Cannes — only the fifth time that a Cannes jury has shared that prize between costars. There’s now the fall film festivals, where the film is continuing to build momentum. And there’s the whole awards season to come, which you guys and your film will clearly be a central part of. What do you make of it all?
SALDA?A I am happy that this industry that I’ve been a part of for almost 20 years is getting to see a very fundamental part of me that I felt I never got to showcase. I’m proud of my journey. I would never change it. Please understand, I like being in space! [A reference to her roles in the blockbuster Avatar, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy film franchises.] But I love Jacques Audiard, and I love art. And getting the recognition? Just having people that I look up to be like, “Oh, hey! You?!” I spent so many years wanting it, and then I stopped wanting it. I thought it was never going to happen. So having someone like Jacques kind of go, “I see you”? It’s healing, because I’ve had to navigate this world and feel kind of, at times, invisible. There is a place that I’ve existed in, and I’ve been told by a lot of people in positions of power, “No, this is what you can do. This is all you can do.” And last summer I was like, “I hear you — but I’m going to do more.” For that to have been acknowledged? For us to have been acknowledged? I was watching it [the Cannes awards ceremony] live in Texas ’cause I was shooting. I was with my folks and my husband’s folks and my children and my sisters and my dog and my cat. And to see my sons crying because they called my name? [chokes up] I don’t know where this is going to lead, but it led here today, and I’m taking it day by day. I’m so grateful that this movie brought me back to ballet and brought me back to myself. And anything else? I’m here.
Selena, you’ve been celebrated for your music and for your great TV program Only Murders in the Building. But to be celebrated for work in film, which I know you’ve been wanting to do more of, must be particularly meaningful to you.
GOMEZ I hope that this is just the beginning. I really, really tried my hardest to throw myself into this. And I was so grateful [for the Cannes recognition] — Zoe was the first to call me to tell me and congratulate all of us for the award. And I remember thinking, “Oh, I think this is something special that we have here.” And we don’t take a second of it for granted.
Karla, you were the spokesperson for the group at that awards ceremony. Any final thoughts?
GASCóN Well, I’ve been reflecting these last few days, what I’ve been thinking about is that beyond what can happen to myself or to my career as an actress, there’s so much more. I sort of feel that I’m the true embodiment of the Joker. If you think of the Joker character, he was a character who spent his whole life being mocked and being insulted and being the victim of violence — and then it ended up with him making a revolution. Well, I feel that way. I am somebody who has spent her whole life being insulted, being rejected and being a target of violence. And now, all of a sudden, I have this opportunity in my hands to be able to change things for the better, to change other people’s lives, as well.
GOMEZ Amen.
Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.
SALDA?A I’m going to go cry.
GOMEZ Me too. Have some tea and cry.
GASCóN Thank you so much.
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