John Barrowman: ‘Of course the next Doctor could be gay’

Ever since John Major was in office, John Barrowman has been to Downing Street and met every prime minister – “whether it’s somebody I voted for or not”. This seems surprising, but his audience was granted in various different capacities, whether simply at a drinks reception or something rather more formal. If they want to talk to him, he tells me, he’s going to go and make his point so that he can say he tried, no matter how responsive they are.

So who’s been the least and most responsive? He pauses and then bursts out laughing. “Theresa May told me that she was a huge fan of Captain Jack,” he says, suggesting that the former PM was more interesting than expected. But the most receptive was David Cameron. “I was invited as part of a group to discuss introducing gay marriage. I said: ‘There are a lot of gay men and women who want to vote for you, but this is a big obstacle.’ People tend to forget it was David Cameron who introduced marriage equality. That’s, sadly, not what he’ll be remembered for…”

Unlikely comebacks are always possible, I point out. After all, Captain Jack Harkness – Barrowman’s aforementioned pan-galactic super-flirt and sometime companion of the Doctor – has had more resurrections than the Time Lord. Jack’s been exterminated, electrocuted, poisoned, starved, stabbed, shot, killed in both world wars, had his soul sucked out by a demon and been taken down accidentally by a stray javelin.

After a 10-year absence from the Tardis, he’s back for the festive special Revolution of the Daleks, following a brief but show-stealing appearance in January’s Fugitive of the Judoon episode. Why has Jack returned? To give the show a much-needed ratings boost?

“I don’t know the reasoning,” shrugs the 53-year-old, “but I do know that in every poll they do for Doctor Who, Jack is always in the top three or four most iconic characters. I was coming out of the Old Vic when Chris Chibnall [the show’s writer and producer] called and said: ‘We need Jack back.’ I had to hold on to a bollard to stay cool. He didn’t say why. He just said: ‘It’s going to be epic and iconic!’”

Things have changed since Jack was last riding the Tardis, for both Barrowman and the Doctor. The Scots-born actor, who moved to the US when he was eight, has appeared in US dramas from Desperate Housewives to the DC Comics franchise shows Arrow and The Flash. In the UK, he’s fronted documentaries and game shows, as well as coming a creditable third in 2018’s I’m a Celebrity. The Doctor, meanwhile, has changed age and gender. Even the Tardis interior and the design of the Daleks are different.

Jack, of course, was woke before woke was a thing, showing up ready to seduce any lifeform, regardless of gender or species, back in 2005, a good seven years before #StayWoke first appeared on Twitter. Is he still going to be flirting with Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor?

“Jack doesn’t recognise the shell, he recognises the two hearts and the soul of the Doctor,” Barrowman says with glee. “Jack doesn’t give a damn that she’s in a female body, a male body or an alien body. Jack will have sex with anything with a postcode. I remember when I kissed the Doctor and Rose in the same episode, a journalist said: ‘Well, that was shocking for the nation.’ I said: ‘Really? Because you’re probably the one who has a problem with it.’ Today, so many kids have two dads, two mums, trans parents… it’s a completely different time.”

Barrowman was famously turned down for the role of Will, the gay lead in sitcom Will & Grace, because producers deemed him “too straight”. Recently, Russell Tovey played a straight husband in ITV drama The Sister while James Corden is taking flak for playing a gay actor in the Netflix film The Prom. Is this progress or a problem?

He thinks carefully. “I believe that as actors we should be able to play all sorts of roles,” he says slowly. “I have played straight, gay, drug addicts and terrorists. James Corden being a straight man has always had the option to play gay or straight. We as openly gay men, gay women, have only recently had the option to play both roles.

“Remember, I worked for a producer a long time ago who told me not to come out. They wanted me not to talk about Scott [architect Scott Gill], who at that time was not my husband but my boyfriend, and I refused and I was written out of the show.”

Does he think the next Doctor could be gay? “Of course the Doctor could be gay. The Doctor could be bisexual, the Doctor could be fluid, whatever, it doesn’t matter,” he gives a big grin. “The Doctor is an alien that can try anything and everything. And that’s where the audience is right now.”

Perhaps more controversially, what does he think of the redesigned Daleks, set to make their debut in the festive special? The Doctor’s oldest foes’ new look is darker and more streamlined with angles and spaces between grilles. Dalek revamps have rarely proved popular. Steven Moffat’s New Paradigm Daleks in 2010 only lasted a couple of episodes.

He pushes back from the table he’s been leaning on as we chat over Zoom and for a moment I’m so stunned that I fail to notice what he’s showing me. Barrowman is in his house in Palm Springs and I can suddenly see why he chooses to live there with Gill – towering over his back garden is one of the biggest mountains in the San Jacinto mountain range and in the morning sun it looks so beautiful it feels like a movie backdrop rather than someone’s everyday view. Then he points to the corner of the room and shows me his own personal full-sized Dalek.

“I’ve always been afraid of Daleks, but it’s there for when kids contact me – I do things like, ‘Captain Jack Harkness here, I’m incognito on a mission for the Doctor and I captured a Dalek…’” he smiles affectionately. “The Daleks have to change and adapt. I grew up with Daleks that could only roll across the floor. When I was in the show they started to levitate and fly. Whether you be Dalek, alien, politician or person, if you’re willing to change, I’m willing to accept you.”

And talking of change, John, what’s with the accent? A recent appearance on ITV’s Lorraine saw him chatting in a broad Scottish burr. “My true accent’s Scottish,” he says, effortlessly launching into it. “The American accent is something I learnt after being bullied. I knew I was going to be bullied for being gay – I knew I was gay aged nine – but I thought, I’m not going be bullied for two things.”

As the call winds up, I ask him if, as a man who cut his performing teeth in musical theatre, he’s been keeping an eye on the struggles of British theatreland. For a second, his eyes flash with genuine anger. “I’m disgusted at the Government’s response. Theatre people pay tax, put money into the system, and it’s still not helping them. Also, I’m angry at producers who’ve made millions off the back of performers saying: ‘We don’t have any money any more.’ I’ve been lucky, I’ve made a good living, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be angry for people who are struggling and need support.”

If Boris Johnson follows tradition and invites Barrowman in for a chat, this may be the one topic where John does more talking than listening. And it’s probably best to let him talk. After all, he’s got his own Dalek…   

Doctor Who is on New Year’s Day at 6.45pm on BBC One