"And Just Like That" star Karen Pittman on the "sexy" missed opportunity of Nya romancing Miranda
Karen Pittman knows she's got "the gravitas." The actor, who plays ambitious producer Mia Jordan on "The Morning Show" and erudite Columbia law professor Dr. Nya Wallace on "And Just Like That…," has built her career on strong, smart women. "When I come in with a character," she told me on "Salon Talks," (taped shortly before the SAG–AFTRA strike), "if you're looking for someone grounded, that's probably me."
So it's been a refreshing shift on the second season of "And Just Like That" to watch the newly single Nya cut loose a little, in the most on brand way for the franchise. "You're coming out of a 17-year marriage . . . and what do you do but have sex?"
Watch Karen Pittman's "Salon Talks" episode here to hear more about her career-changing turns on two hit shows, finding the vulnerability in her high-achieving characters, how she sidesteps "the tropey things you see about women of color," and who's better for Miranda – Che or Nya.
This following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Let's talk about Season 2 of "And Just Like That." Season 2's are so interesting in general for any show.
Aren't they? It's your sophomore attempt. This is your second chance, you know what I mean? Do some new things and try things out.
We know who Dr. Wallace is this time around, and she's in a different era in her life. This season, I feel like she's also getting to have a little more fun.
Yes. We start out Season 2 where she is realizing that things just are never going to work with the partner that she's had for 17 years, and what a weird and scary and a hopeful place to be in because anything is possible. She is separating from her husband, but it looks like she's on the hunt for a new life, and you'll see that unfold.
I've seen you in so many things where you've been so serious. You're often cast as a very smart, very accomplished person.
With the gravitas.
Maybe it's the opera training.
It might be. I think it's also that I have two children, and they ground me a lot. When I come in with a character, if you're looking for someone grounded, that's probably me.
You get to be more fun this time.
Yes, yes. We do a lot of sex because you're coming out of a 17-year marriage and what do you do but have sex? She's exploring her new friendships with her friends, so you'll see a lot of scenes with Lisa Todd Wexley, and Charlotte and Carrie and Seema. All of us on the show are out there tearing up New York City, like women can do.
It's fun watching now this coalesced new friend group, because last season was all about creating these new relationships and dynamics. I heard that you were originally thought of to be Miranda's love interest.
I heard that.
What happened?
I don't know. What I will say is that it's important that casting be appropriate, and I think that they made the right decision in that Sara Ramirez, they're non-binary, and so I think that it was a better choice. I do think that if you are an actress who is same gender loving, you should have the opportunity to do those parts. I think it was a good choice. But that would've been kind of sexy and fun.
Can I continue to ship them?
You can if you want to.
There is a conversation about what this show looked like 25 years ago, not reflecting what New York City was, but also being in so many ways groundbreaking. The new show comes out, and all the conversation is about representation. You're part of that, but you're also playing a character. How do you balance that, because you do represent something now to audiences?
For me, as an actress, I try to stay focused on the humanity of any character I create. If I come on camera, I'm very obviously Black. Very obviously African American. You're not going to miss it. But although people feel very strongly about making sure the representation happens in Hollywood, my job is really to reflect the art and the story of what the writers and what my fellow actors are trying to do. So although it's very important that the show reflect diversity and inclusivity and equity in their storytelling, as an actor, I just try to stay focused on the art, which is hard sometimes because you do feel a responsibility to it.
You do see areas in the industry where there's still a lot of unconscious bias and sometimes conscious bias, so I try to just stay in the middle of the areas where I can contribute in positive ways. It might sound a little bit Pollyanna-ish, but it is the only way for me to stay connected to what my dream of my life has always been, which is to take advantage of every opportunity to do the work that I feel like I am called to do as an actor.
And playing these complicated, sometimes flawed, sometimes messy women, like on "The Morning Show," women who aren't perfect, who don't have to be archetypes, but who feel real.
And also women who are fragile and who are vulnerable, and who are in a place where they're trying to navigate their lives. Some of the tropey things you see about women of color, definitely Black women, is that they're strong. They're stoic. They're obviously ambitious, but they're not in touch with their feelings in that way. I want to make sure that I'm showing a well-rounded, nuanced woman as we see many women in the industry, but not always the African American woman, because that that's a full picture of who we are.
I don't want to give anything away, but that does get explored in this season with an older character talking about that need to be strong. Then you have the younger generations exploring and challenging that.
It's something that I'm also exploring on "The Morning Show" because it's timely. We are that generation of women who, our mothers sort of forged the way for us to be out in the industry, and now we're out here. We have to make decisions about, do I have children? Or, I don't want to have children. We have options. Sometimes as you get older, those options, you're like, "Oh, shoot, I made the wrong decision. I should have done that. I should have done this." Those things create vulnerability in your life and in your perspective on what life should be.
This idea of "having it all" that mothers have to face. You've talked about how much of an impact your own mom's choices in life had on yours as a working mom.
I could cry about this, so I'm not going to cry on Salon, but so much of what I learned about being a mother, I learned from my own mother. She was an extraordinary woman that imbued in us the importance, the significance of being on the earth and doing something purposeful. Every day that I raise my kids, I use something that she taught me, mostly because my mother didn't really have the opportunities and options that she created for me. So much of what I do, even as a career person, as a businesswoman, is in reaction to the fact that my mother couldn't make that choice. If my mother could have this choice, what would she do? Well, she would go for it. She's now passed on. One of the last few conversations I had with her was, "Karen, go for it. Do it."
She saw me on a show I did years ago. I was doing karate chopping and going flying through plate windows and running around. She was like, "Oh, Karen is stealing the show." She used to say to me all the time, "Steal the show, Karen. Steal the show." So definitely, a lot of the work that I do as a mother is in the reflection of all that my mother showed me. But as a career woman, a lot of it is in reaction to what she couldn't do, what she didn't have a choice to do.
You've also talked about the difference that it makes having women in the writers' room, having women in the director's chair. This season you get to be directed by Cynthia Nixon. You have the great Samantha Irby in the writer's room.
Fantastic, right?
You have that on "The Morning Show." How has that changed how you approach your career and what your workspaces feel like?
It's so funny because over the last 10 years of my career, I have been in the company of women who have really been running the show. "The Americans" with Keri Russell, who was really extraordinary on that show and in the direction of it. I worked on a Broadway show with Francis McDormand and Laurie Metcalf and then another show. This just feels like part and parcel of my career to be witnessing these incredible actors who are elevating themselves into directors and executive producers and telling stories.
I've learned so much about what it really means to be thoughtful, exacting, generous, compassionate, focused, what it means to not be liked and be OK with it. It's been a real proving ground for me and it's inspired me to tell my own stories, to take the bull by the horns and just try to develop my own ideas of what I want to say as an artist, as an actor, because these women have been doing it so beautifully.
Are you going to direct? What's coming next?
I don't know. I certainly write and I have a lot of stories in me to tell. It's a very specific perspective, being an African American woman right now in the 21st century. I don't think enough of the American film and television industry sees the gaze of what the African American woman looks on in the world. I think that it's a much-needed perspective. It could be so valuable for people to see, so any way that I can be useful and use my talents and my gifts is where I want to go. But I have not yet figured that out. I feel like the door will open for either directing or producing or writing, whenever that happens.
Well, in the meantime, you're plenty busy.
I'm so booked and busy right now.
You were just at Tribeca Film Festival.
I was. With Mark Duplass.
Tell me about that show, "The Long Long Night."
I have a small part in that, in one episode. But it was something that we did over the pandemic with the writer Barret O'Brien, and his sister is producing it as well. It was sort of a family project. It was something we did over a week of time. The pandemic was kind of an artistic space where we were all hungry to do something but needed to do it in a really safe and protected way. This story was just two, three of us at a hotel filming something as only the Duplass brothers sort of tell, a story and quick and dirty, but I really like how it turned out.
We have new season of "The Morning Show" coming soon. I know you can't say much, but you've got to tell me something.
I could tell you that Mia Jordan is back and she's still executive producing "The Morning Show." It's going through all of its shifts and changes. I think that Jen [Aniston] and Reese [Witherspoon] said that there's some romance. I can say it's kind of sensual this season. I think I can say that for the story. But otherwise, oh gosh, it's going to be a beautiful story as only the producers can make it really. The production values are high. It's beautiful storytelling, a lot of twist and turns.
Both of those are big shows.
Two big shows. Two big networks too.
Two big networks and also two big ensembles. I read an interview with you where you said you prefer to be in an ensemble.
I love it.
You're a scene-stealer.
I'm going to steal the show for sure.
But it's hard to steal the show when you're on a big show.
No, I don't think so. When it's your time to step out front, you step out front. When it's your time to support your fellow actors, you do it. I think ensemble storytelling is the best storytelling because when people come together to do anything, it's almost always better. It's almost always elevated. I don't think there are enough examples in television where we are all finding common ground that doesn't have to do with finger pointing or wagging fingers at each other. It really is about how we come together and get around the fire and tell a really good story. And ensemble stories I think do that the best. They're diverse.
Oftentimes you hear things in the mouth of a character that you wouldn't hear any other way. The writers on "The Morning Show" are incredible. And also in "And Just Like That," we have a bunch of great directors on this season of "The Morning Show."
It feels like coming out of the pandemic, there is this real connection with audiences for shows that are about groups of people coming together.
I was amazed at how much more popular I became post-pandemic. That was because all of my shows were suddenly available for everyone to see. That was "The Americans," "Yellowstone" and "Luke Cage," and suddenly I was everywhere. But this is just all of my work. The body of work came forward over the last 10 years for people to see it, so it's suddenly a different game.
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