Former Chief of Staff John Kelly Says Donald Trump ‘Prefers the Dictator Approach’
John Kelly, who served as White House chief of staff during Donald Trump’s presidency, said the former president fit “into the general definition of fascist.” In an interview with The New York Times, Kelly also confirmed that Trump “certainly prefers the dictator approach to government.”
Kelly, a former Marine general, was previously Homeland Security secretary under Trump before transitioning to the White House in July of 2017. He was Trump’s longest-serving chief of staff, working under the president for a year and a half. Although Kelly acknowledged that he was not endorsing a specific candidate in the impending election, he noted that “it’s a very dangerous thing to have the wrong person elected to high office.”
In the interview, Kelly aligned Trump with the definition of fascism. “Well, looking at the definition of fascism: It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” he said. “So certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running America.”
He added, “Certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he’s certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators — he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.”
Kelly also said Trump did not accept the limitations on the power of the U.S. president while in office. “He certainly prefers the dictator approach to government,” Kelly said. He confirmed that Trump “never accepted the fact that he wasn’t the most powerful man in the world — and by power, I mean an ability to do anything he wanted, anytime he wanted.”
The sentiment was echoed in Trump’s assertion to Kelly that Hitler was a positive figure, something he has invoked in speeches. “He commented more than once that, ‘You know, Hitler did some good things, too,’” Kelly told the Times, adding that it was Trump’s lack of history knowledge that may have generated this belief.
“First of all, you should never say that,” Kelly said he told Trump. “But if you knew what Hitler was all about from the beginning to the end, everything he did was in support of his racist, fascist life, you know, the, you know, philosophy, so that nothing he did, you could argue, was good — it was certainly not done for the right reason.”
Kelly left the White House in 2019 and said he would only speak out against Trump if he found something troubling or inaccurate. He said Trump’s recent accusations that the U.S. military is the “enemy within” were so dangerous he was compelled to voice his opinion.
“And I think this issue of using the military on — to go after — American citizens is one of those things I think is a very, very bad thing — even to say it for political purposes to get elected — I think it’s a very, very bad thing, let alone actually doing it,” Kelly said.
Kelly said that from his first year in office Trump was repeatedly told why he should not use the U.S. military against Americans. Trump continued to claim he had that power and is still claiming it now. “Originally, conversation would be: Mr. President, that’s outside your authority, or you know that’s a routine use, you really don’t want to do that inside the United States,” Kelly said. “But now that he’s talking about it as ‘I’m gonna do it’ is, again, it’s disturbing.”
Trump also continually criticized the military, telling Kelly more than once that soldiers captured, wounded, or killed in action were “losers and suckers.”
“The time in Paris was not the only time that he ever said it,” Kelly said. “Whenever John McCain’s name came up, he’d go through this rant about him being a loser, and all those people were suckers, and why do you people think that people getting killed are heroes? And he’d go through this rant. To me, I could never understand why he was that way — he may be the only American citizen that feels that way about those who gave their lives or served their country.”
Elsewhere in the interview, Kelly spoke about the U.S. Constitution and said the former president did not have respect for basic American values.
“He’s certainly the only president that has all but rejected what America is all about, and what makes America America, in terms of our Constitution, in terms of our values, the way we look at everything, to include family and government — he’s certainly the only president that I know of, certainly in my lifetime, that was like that,” Kelly said. “He just doesn’t understand the values — he pretends, he talks, he knows more about America than anybody, but he doesn’t.”
At the end of the interview, the Times asked Kelly if Trump has an empathy. To which Kelly responded: “No.”
Earlier this year, Trump threw Kelly under the bus, writing on Truth Social that his former chief of staff “pretended to be a ‘tough guy,’ but was actually weak and ineffective, born with a VERY small ‘brain.'”
“He’s scared s—less,” Kelly told The Washington Post for a piece about Trump’s post-arraignment showmanship. “This is the way he compensates for that. He gives people the appearance he doesn’t care by doing this. For the first time in his life, it looks like he’s being held accountable. Up until this point in his life, it’s like, I’m not going to pay you; take me to court. He’s never been held accountable before.”
More from Rolling Stone
Best of Rolling Stone
Sign up for RollingStone's Newsletter. For the latest news, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.