Robert Hur defends characterization of Biden's memory in testimony to Congress: Recap
WASHINGTON – Special Counsel Robert Hur was grilled by lawmakers from both political parties in a fiery House Judiciary Committee hearing on his bombshell report on President Joe Biden's handling of classified documents.
"What I wrote is what I believe the evidence shows, and what I expect jurors would perceive and believe," Hur said. "I did not sanitize my explanation. Nor did I disparage the President unfairly."
Over the course of five hours of interviews, Biden told the special counsel that he didn't intend to keep the classified information after leaving office as vice president, according to copies of the transcript reviewed by USA TODAY.
In the report released last month, Hur said that Biden shouldn't face criminal charges for mishandling documents. But he also painted the president as a "sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory."
Catch up with USA TODAY's live coverage of Tuesday's hearing.
More: Did special counsel cross the line in bashing Biden's memory? Even some Republicans think so
White House responds to marathon hearing
Biden was updated about the hearing, Ian Sams, a spokesman for the White House Counsel’s Office, said.
“He saw a little bit of what went down. And I think the president feels strongly that this case is over and it’s time to move on for the business of the American people,” Sams said.
Sams defended Biden’s reaction last month when the president angrily accused Hur of asking about his son Beau Biden’s death during the special counsel’s interview. “How in the hell dare he raise that!” Biden said at the time. The transcript, however, showed that Hur did not bring up Beau Biden’s death.
“The president was, I think, very emotional about the fact that this special counsel, which had spent five hours with the president, used his report to make a patently false claim that the president doesn’t somehow remember when his son died,” Sams said. “The transcript is now available for every American to see. And you can see the president remembers exactly the day his son died.”
– Joey Garrison
White House: ‘The case is closed” after Hur testimony
After Hur finished his testimony to lawmakers on Tuesday, the White House argued the case involving Biden's handling of classified documents is over.
“The conclusion was simple – that there is no case here, the case is closed, it’s time to move on,” said Ian Sams, a spokesman for the White House Counsel’s Office.
Sams disagreed with Hur’s testimony that the special counsel report did not “exonerate” Biden. He also said Biden was updated on the hearing.
“We have a presumption of innocence in this country. The job of a prosecutor is simple. It is binary. I heard the special counsel say that today. You either charge or don’t charge,” Sams said. “The president was innocent and that was the conclusion of this case.”
Sams accused House Republicans of wanting to use the Hur report to “attack the president politically” in a push to help former President Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee. “And it’s a failure,” he said. “We need to work on things that actually matter for the American people.”
– Joey Garrison
White House tried to change Hur report dealing with Biden’s memory: Jordan
Justice Department special counsel Robert Hur acknowledged that the White House tried to change a draft of his report dealing with President Joe Biden’s memory because he said frequently he couldn’t recall answers to questions.
Rep. Jim Jordan, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, noted that Hur communicated with the White House counsel and Biden’s personal counsel during the one-year investigation. Hur provided a draft of the report to the White House before it was released publicly.
Jordan said a White House letter Feb. 5 asked Hur to change provisions about Biden’s memory. Other letters Feb. 7 to Attorney General Merrick Garland and Feb. 12 to Bradley Weinsheimer, the associate deputy attorney general, made the same request.
“I just find that interesting that the White House is communicating with you through this one-year investigation and then the White House says, ‘We’re going to go to the principal’s office and we’re going to talk about Mr. Hur’s report,’” said Jordan, R-Ohio.
Hur said the White House was free to communicate with anyone in the federal government.
“They did request certain edits and changes to the draft report,” Hur said. “They were certainly entitled to write whatever letters they wished.”
Hur’s report said Biden frequently responded to questions by saying he couldn’t recall answers. Hur declined to press charges after concluding a jury would find Biden a "sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory."
--Bart Jansen
Swalwell plays video of Trump gaffes
Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., pressed Hur about remarking in the interview’s transcript that Biden appeared to “have a photographic understanding,” in his conversations with investigators.
Hur declined to confirm whether he said those words when asked, but acknowledged the words appear as so in the transcript. Swalwell noted those words “never appeared in your report.”
Swalwell then played a video that he described “is absolutely not photographic,” which included Trump’s various gaffes during his presidential campaigns and his administration.
– Ken Tran
‘That is not what happened’: Hur denies partisanship in investigation of Biden
Justice Department special counsel Robert Hur strongly denied the accusation that partisan politics played any part in his investigation of President Joe Biden’s handling of classified documents after he left the vice presidency.
Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., accused Hur of doing everything he could to get former President Donald Trump elected so that Hur could be appointed a federal judge. There was some applause in the audience when Johnson got Hur to confirm he is a registered Republican. Hur was appointed US attorney for Maryland by then-President Trump.
“Despite clearing President Biden from being prosecuted, you used your report to trash and smear President Biden because he said, in response to questions over a five-hour interview, that he didn’t recall how he got the documents,” Johnson said. “You knew that that would play into the Republicans’ narrative that the president is unfit for office because he’s senile.”
Hur denied wanting to become a judge. He spoke over Johnson to stress the investigation and report weren’t partisan.
“Congressman, I reject the suggestions you have just made. That is not what happened,” Hur said. “Partisan politics played no part whatsoever in my work.”
--Bart Jansen
Van Drew accuses Justice Department of being ‘weaponized against conservatives’
Rep. Jeff Van Drew, R-N.J., accused the Justice Department of “being weaponized against conservatives” and railed against Hur’s decision to not charge Biden for being a “well meaning but forgetful old man.”
Biden, he said, “was willingly and knowingly breaking the law,” accusing the president of intentionally withholding classified documents for his book’s ghostwriter.
Van Drew asked Hur if he thought Trump’s existing charges which include mishandling classified documents and obstruction of justice were “unprecedented” and “extraordinary.” Hur declined to comment.
– Ken Tran
Biden not charged under ‘senile cooperator theory,’ Gaetz
Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., agreed with Justice Department special counsel Robert Hur’s decision not to charge President Joe Biden with mishandling classified documents because of what he called the “senile cooperator theory.”
When Biden was asked Feb. 8 at a White House news conference why he shared classified information with his ghostwriter, Biden replied that he did not. “I guarantee I did not,” Biden said.
Gaetz asked Hur whether that was true.
“That is inconsistent with the findings, based on the evidence in my report.
“That’s a lie, is what regular people would call it,” Gaetz said.
Biden also said all the documents at his home were in filing cabinets that could be locked. Hur also called that inconsistent with his findings. “Another lie, people might say,” Gaetz said.
Hur decided not to charge Biden because he didn’t think he could persuade a jury that Biden acted “willfully” or intentionally, as required to prosecute under the statute. Hur concluded a jury would find Biden a well-meaning old man who was forgetful.
“You find that the elements of the crime are met, but then you apply this senile cooperator theory that because Joe Biden cooperated and the elevator doesn’t go to the top floor, you don’t think you can get a conviction,” Gaetz said.
--Bart Jansen
House Dem argues Biden’s memory had no effect on criminal charges
Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., argued Biden’s memory had no effect on Hur’s final decision to not charge the president, arguing Biden’s case was different from Trump “in the facts of the case and how he dealt with it.”
Cohen noted Biden cooperated with authorities when Trump did not in his own classified documents case, adding the president sat with investigators for interviews “for five hours and he did an admirable job.”
– Ken Tran
Raskin: House GOP have turned into ‘amateur memory specialists’
Raskin went after House Republicans’ impeachment inquiry into Biden and accused GOP investigators of pivoting to becoming “amateur memory specialists,'' after suffering huge setbacks into their allegations of corruption against the president.
“They were looking for high crimes or misdemeanors, now they appoint themselves amateur memory specialists,” Raskin said.
The hearing, he added, is meant to serve as a “distraction” from Trump’s batch of criminal charges. Raskin railed against the proceedings while international aid to key U.S. allies such as Ukraine remains unfinished business in Congress.
“Will America stand on the side of people struggling against fascist aggression? Will we stand with the people of Ukraine against Vladimir Putin, whose filthy war has meant the kidnapping of thousands of Ukranian children, the murder, the slaughter of thousands of Ukrainian civilians and the attack on an independent sovereign democracy?” he said.
“But we’re not working on that today. We’re not standing up for democracy and human rights and international law around the world,” Raskin added. “No, we’re trying to play memory detectives to parse the language of a president who the whole world got to see at the State of the Union address,” Raskin said.
-- Ken Tran
Biden broke rules over classified documents for $8 million book advance: Jordan
Rep. Jim Jordan, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, accused President Joe Biden of holding on to the classified documents because of the greed and vanity of an $8 million book about his time as vice president.
Jordan, R-Ohio, said Biden was familiar with how to protect classified documents after decades in the Senate and being in the situation room as vice president. But he needed to hold on to handwritten notebooks to write his book and “buttress his legacy as a world leader,” according to special counsel Robert Hur’s report.
“Joe Biden had 8 million reasons to break the rules,” Jordan said. “He knew the rules but he broke them for $8 million in a book advance.”
Hur acknowledged that Biden’s book advance and concerns about his legacy were motivations included in his report.
“Pride and money is why he knowingly violated the rules,” Jordan added. “The oldest motives in the book.”
--Bart Jansen
Lawmakers compare Biden and Trump classified document cases
Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Calif., told Hur that he agrees with Hur's assessment that former presidents and other senior officials "have been given wide latitude" with documents in their possession and that his decision not to prosecute Biden "is consistent with that precedent."
"But the problem is that precedent changed with the administration's decision to prosecute Donald Trump," McClintock said.
He argued that Trump had "full discretion" over how to handle those documents and Biden did not because he had not yet served as president. "Now we get to this glaring double standard," he said. "This is the worst we could expect from a banana republic."
Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., argued that "there are clear differences" between the two cases.
Trump "obstructed" the investigation while Biden cooperated, she said, and that Biden did not consider documents created by others to be his personal property while Trump did.
-- Riley Beggin
Biden met all requirements to be charged for holding classified documents: Armstrong
Rep. Kelly Armstrong, R-N.D., argued the President Joe Biden’s actions met all the requirements to be charged criminally, even though Justice Department special counsel Robert Hur chose not to charge him.
Armstrong noted that Biden kept classified documents at his home and offices after leaving the vice presidency. The documents dealt with national defense.
A key element to potential charges is whether Biden “willfully” or intentionally kept the classified documents. Armstrong argued Biden was willful because classified documents were found at the Penn Biden Center; at three locations in his Wilmington, Delaware, home; and at the University of Delaware.
“The elements of the crime are pretty simple,” Armstrong said. “We have a 50-year career of a person who has not been very great at dealing with classified documents throughout and even prior to his time as vice president, when he was in the Senate.”
Hur said federal prosecutors must assess the evidence to determine whether to file charges based on whether the suspect would “probably” be convicted at trial. Hur concluded a jury would find Biden a well-meaning old man who was forgetful.
“It certainly has something to do with the way that a jury is going to perceive and receive and consider and make conclusions based on evidence at trial,” Hur said.
--Bart Jansen
Raskin calls GOP impeachment effort ‘flailing and embarrassing’
Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland, the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, also contrasted President Joe Biden’s cooperation with federal authorities to former President Donald Trump’s actions.
Trump is charged with allegedly suggesting his lawyer hide or destroy evidence, instructing aides to hide classified documents and trying to delete incriminating video.
“Given that this report is so damning in the contrast between Biden and Trump it is hard for me to see why our colleagues think that this hearing advances their flailing and embarrassing quest to impeach the president of the United States,” Raskin said. “What America sees today is one president who believes in the rule of law and works to protect it and one who has nothing but contempt for the rule of law and acts solely in pursuit of his own constantly multiplying corrupt schemes.”
--Bart Jansen
GOP Oversight Committee chair: Biden 'has not been honest' about handling of classified material
House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer, R-Ky., says in his opening statement that Biden has "not been honest with the American people about his willful retention of classified material."
He said the special counsel's report "is alarming" and that the Justice Department did not give lawmakers copies of the interview between Biden and Hur until hours before today's hearing.
"Transparency is what we seek today," he concluded.
-- Riley Beggin
GOP Judiciary Chair: 'Joe Biden broke the law'
In his opening statement, House Judiciary Chairman Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, argues Biden illegally kept classified documents relating to American national security and shared them with his ghostwriter.
"Joe Biden broke the law," Jordan said. "But because he's a forgetful old man who would appear sympathetic to a jury, Mr. Hur chose not to bring charges."
He played a video of Biden responding to Hur's characterization, saying "my memory is fine" and that he did not share classified information. "I did not break the law, period," Biden said.
-- Riley Beggin
Biden ‘didn’t want to embarrass’ Obama with Handwritten Afghanistan memo among classified records
President Joe Biden described one of the classified documents to investigators as dealing with U.S. policy in Afghanistan, and how as vice president he disagreed with other advisers to former President Barack Obama.
Biden initially became combative about discussing the memo.
“I’ll tell you why I wrote it. But it’s none of your business why I wrote it,” Biden told investigators.
But Biden disagreed with Richard Holbrooke, a special adviser on Afghanistan and Pakistan, and others in a handwritten, 20-page memo he drafted on Thanksgiving day 2009. Biden said he was trying to change Obama’s mind about U.S. policy because he thought the president was being “misled.”
“I wrote it because I as trying to change the president’s mind and I wanted to let him know I was ready to speak out no matter – unless he told me, ‘Don’t say a word’ – I’m ready to speak out, and to really, quite frankly, save his ass on what was going on,” Biden told investigators.
The recording of the conversation was halted for 17 minutes while Biden discussed the memo. Back on the record, Biden said his position was to offer foreign policy experience from decades in the Senate to make the strongest case he could in contrast to other advisers.
“So to me it was very confidential because I didn’t want to embarrass the president,” Biden said.
One element of the memo suggested “an absolute time limit” to keeping troops in Afghanistan, “to test theories of the guys who wanted to go in and do more and stay longer,” Biden told investigators. “And so it wasn’t just, you know, open-ended. We weren’t going to put another 100,000 troops.”
The eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan in August 2021, when Biden was president, was widely considered a chaotic debacle.
--Bart Jansen
What Biden says about the dates of his son's death in interview with Hur
The special counsel report said that Biden "did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau had died."
That line became a major attack point for Democrats and infuriated the president, who told reporters following the release of the report: "How in the hell dare he raise that?"
But in a transcript of the interview reviewed by USA TODAY, Biden does appear to express confusion over the year of his son's death.
In the interview on Oct. 8, 2023, Hur asks Biden where he kept papers related to his work at the University of Pennsylvania's Biden Center, the University of Delaware's Biden Institute, and the Cancer Moonshot program after leaving the vice presidency.
Biden clarifies that he's asking about the 2017-2018 timeframe, which Hur confirms.
Biden: ...Even though I'm at Penn, I hadn't walked away from the idea that I may run for office again. But if I ran again, I'd be running for president. And who what was happening, though - what month did Beau die? Oh, God, May 30th --
Rachel Cotton, White House lawyer: 2015.
Unidentified male speaker: 2015.
Biden: Was it 2015 he had died?
Unidentified male speaker: It was May of 2015.
Biden: It was 2015.
Robert Bauer, Biden's personal lawyer: Or I'm not sure the month, sir, but I think that was the year.
Marc Krickbaum, Hur's deputy: That's right, Mr. President. It --
Biden: And what's happened in the meantime is that as -- and Trump gets elected in November of 2017?
Unidentified male speaker: 2016.
Unidentified male speaker: '16.
Biden: '16, 2016. All right. So -- why do I have 2017 in here?
Ed Siskel, White House counsel: That's when you left office, January of 2017.
Biden: Yeah, okay. But that's when Trump gets sworn in then, January --
Siskel: Right.
Bauer: Right, correct.
Biden: Okay, yeah. And in 2017, Beau had passed and -- this is personal -- the genesis of the book and the title "Promise Me, Dad" was a -- I know you're all close with your sons and daughters, but Beau was like my right arm and Hunt was my left. ...
Biden goes on to describe how he decided to write his book and how he decided to run for president following the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va. in 2017.
-- Riley Beggin
Biden and Trump campaigns piggyback on Hur hearing
Perhaps the most invested observers of the Hur hearing: The presidential campaigns.
Aides to Biden and Donald Trump have been pumping out commentary all morning, emphasizing different aspects of Hur's testimony and the transcript of his interview with Biden over removal of classified documents.
"President Biden caught Republican counsel Hur questioning him about a false quote when he added a word that was not in the original language he cited," said a post from Biden-Harris HQ, the "rapid response" account on X, formerly Twitter.
MAGA War Room, a pro-Trump account on X, offered different interpretations of Biden's testimony.
"Joe Biden didn't remember that he was vice president in 2013," said one post.
Trump himself has also weighed in, contrasting Biden's documents case with his own.
-David Jackson
Hur addresses Biden's memory in prepared remarks: Assessment 'was necessary and accurate and fair.'
Hur plans to tell members of the House Judiciary Committee that he did not believe there was enough evidence to charge Biden with a crime related to his handling of classified documents, but that he "could not simply announce that I recommended no criminal charges and leave it at that. I needed to explain why."
Hur needed to evaluate the president's "state of mind" in order to determine whether he "willfully" retained secret information about national defense, according to prepared remarks obtained by USA TODAY.
That makes Biden's memory relevant, he plans to say. Biden didn't remember finding classified documents in his home after leaving office or how they got there, Hur says.
The description in the report "was necessary and accurate and fair," he says. "I did not sanitize my explanation. Nor did I disparage the president unfairly."
-- Riley Beggin
'I did not sanitize my explanation': Hur
Former Justice Department special counsel Robert Hur said in testimony prepared for the hearing that he found President Joe Biden willfully retained classified documents after serving as vice president and shared them with his ghostwriter. But Hur didn’t find enough evidence to prosecute Biden criminally.
“This evidence included an audio recorded conversation during which Mr. Biden told his ghostwriter that he had ‘just found all the classified stuff downstairs,’” Hur said in prepared comments. “When Mr. Biden said this, he was a private citizen speaking to his ghostwriter in his private rental home in Virginia.”
But Hur said he couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt – the standard for a criminal prosecution – that Biden discussed classified information with his ghostwriter. Hur said he needed to “show my work” about why he chose not to charge Biden, which is why he described the president’s forgetfulness.
Biden has criticized Hur for faulting his memory.
When questioned in October about his conversation with the ghostwriter, Biden told investigators he didn’t remember talking about classified records, according to Hur. Biden also didn’t remember finding classified material at his home or about how classified records about Afghanistan made their way to his garage.
“I knew that for my decision to be credible, I could not simply announce that I recommended no criminal charges and leave it at that. I needed to explain why,” Hur said in prepared comments. “I did not sanitize my explanation. Nor did I disparage the president unfairly.”
– Bart Jansen
Who is Robert Hur?
Hur was a top-ranking member of the Justice Department under former President Donald Trump. In 2017, Trump nominated him to become Maryland's U.S. attorney. Hur went into private practice in 2021.
Attorney General Merrick Garland chose Hur to lead the independent investigation into Biden's handling of classified documents in early 2023 in an attempt to retain apolitical distance between the Justice Department and the president.
Democrats have argued that Hur took liberties with his description of the president, pointing to his political background.
– Riley Beggin
This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Robert Hur testimony recap: Special counsel grilled about Biden report