'Sons of Anarchy' Star Katey Sagal on Gemma's Showdown With Jax and Working With Husband Kurt Sutter

Warning: Character and storyline spoilers ahead for the "Red Rose" episode of Sons of Anarchy.

You might have predicted any one of the three deaths in the penultimate episode of Sons of Anarchy, but three major characters — Juice, Unser, and motorcycle mama Gemma — ending their Charming lives just short of the series finale? It's a devastating turn of events, to be sure, especially since that last death saw destroyed son Jax taking matters into his own hands to punish his mother — the woman who murdered the only other woman he loved, wife Tara.

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Katey Sagal, who won a Golden Globe for her portrayal of Gemma, talked to Yahoo TV about the "merciful" choice to have her SAMCRO matriarch die, why the highly-anticipated showdown between mother and son played out so calmly, whether or not she thinks Gemma is, er, was, evil, and the memento she kept from the show.

She also talked about lessons learned from working with her real-life husband, Sons of Anarchy creator Kurt Sutter, and about their next joint project: the upcoming FX drama The Bastard Executioner.

At what point did you know for certain that Gemma would die this season?
I knew three or four episodes in this season. Kurt told Charlie [Hunnam] and I both, as soon as he one hundred percent knew it. I knew it was leaning that way. I also knew it would be at the hands of [Gemma's] son. I didn't know the circumstance, or how it would happen, but I knew it would be at [Jax's] hands.

Did you try to persuade against that? What was your opinion on that story choice?
I thought it was the right choice. I sort of felt like it was the merciful choice. I knew that the repercussions of the lie were going to just mount. And especially after Bobby's death, it was sort of like, "Oh yeah, just kill her." You know, just send her off. I definitely think it was the merciful choice. I don't know how a person like Gemma lives with that — everything that happened, ultimately.

The big showdown between Gemma and Jax is something everyone has been anticipating since the Season 6 finale. The biggest surprise in how it plays out is how calm it is. Is that something you and Charlie decided on, the tone of those last minutes between Gemma and Jax?
It was Kurt's intention that that scene play out like that. That what you're seeing is that Gemma has resigned herself to this. She has done that from the moment that Nero found out through Jax what she had done, and she heads out of town. She's on a journey. She says goodbye to Abel; she says goodbye to her father. She knows what's happening. So there are none of the histrionics that you might expect: the pleading for your life, or long explanations of what happened. She has a moment where she really wants Jax to know that she loved Tara. It could have gone into, "I didn't really mean it, and it just sort of happened. Please spare me." But that's not what she wants, either. I believe that it's gone too far for her. I think she wants the relief of death... I do.

Those moments — and Charlie and I did talk about it before we sat down and had that conversation in the living room — we were very clear these should be conversational moments. I thought there was a certain intimacy about it. You know, it's just a mother and her son. They're just talking about their lives together. They're looking at the pictures. There is something kind of sweet about it. Then walking out to the garden was definitely very emotional for Charlie and I both. Before we shot that, we would hang onto each other and really just hold each other. And then we'd go and shoot those takes.

Why did Gemma accept her fate, delivered in this way? Why did she put her son in the position of having to kill her, versus killing herself, which seemed like a possibility throughout the season?

I think there are two ways to look at it. Either she was too chicken to do it herself... or, I think more likely, she really believed that her son, who had been trying to get retribution for Tara's death the entire season, needed to do it. I think maybe she thought this will set him free, to actually kill Tara's killer with his own hands. You know, these are outlaw people; that's what they do. They're eye-for-an-eye. I would imagine that was her thought process. I don't know that she thought he would be so tortured by that. I just don't think so. I think she just thought that was the best thing to do.

Is she more than resigned to her fate? Is there a certain amount of relief at not having to carry around this huge secret?
Yeah. She can't see her grandchildren anymore. She can't go back to the house. Life as she has known it is over. There is a big part of her that is so happy that she's not carrying that secret anymore, because I think that really just started to eat at her, just terribly.

You know, it's interesting. Gemma has been on a very spiritual quest, these seven seasons. She's had her moments of questioning what God is, and where is God? And I always imagined she was a preacher's kid, and she had sort of just turned her back on the church. But then ever since John Teller’s death, she sort of wonders about those things. Is there a God? Am I going to be punished? What does it mean? All those things. I think that she's made some kind of journey. There is some kind of arc in her spiritual seeking. I don't know if anybody else sees that, but I see that.

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And where do you think she lands on that, in the end?
I think she lands on, We go somewhere after we die. I don't think she's afraid of dying. I think that she has a belief in a God, a God of her own understanding, whatever that is that she decides it is. I don't think she's a Bible thumper. But I think she has made peace with that calming energy, that it's protecting her.

Gemma's relationship with Nero has been a highlight of the series since Jimmy Smits joined the cast, and their time together helped Gemma remain somewhat sympathetic, even after Tara's death. How much of a factor do you think that was?
Oh definitely, I think Nero brought out a softer side of her. He was a different kind of outlaw, as Kurt used to say. He was more sensitive and... he wanted to be out of that life. Not that Gemma wanted to be out of the life, but I think she liked the softness of him. She was so used to the hard edges of Clay, and here was this different kind of man, who loved her. He really loved her.

What's your final take on Gemma? Was she evil? Or, judged within this framework of the life and the community she lived within, were her intentions ultimately good?
Oh yeah, I don't think she's evil at all. I think killing Tara was an act of passion, you know? Killing someone in a rage like that. It wasn't pre-meditated. If you asked her, probably right after it happened, she would wish she didn't do it. Gemma was going on fumes. She was going on misinformation, and it was kind of a perfect storm. But I do not believe Gemma was ever evil. I think her motives in that outlaw world... this is what they do. This is their rule book. Their own rule book includes killing people. I think that her motivation has always been to keep her family together, to do what's best for her son and her grandchildren. I think ultimately she regrets that she killed Tara; that was not her plan.

The show and the character have been such a part of your life for seven years. Did you keep anything from the set?

Yeah, I have Gemma's coat from the pilot: a brown leather coat that was made for her. So I kept that coat.

What about the infamous carving fork? There were a ton of Gemma carving fork photos and jokes on Twitter at Thanksgiving; have those grown tiresome?
Oh no, I appreciate all of that. Our fanbase is amazing. They have so much contributed to the success of the show. We appreciate them, and we thought it was funny that pretty much the day after that episode aired, I was doing an autograph show, and people lined up with forks for me to sign. I remember I had said to Kurt, "Oh my God, this is it. Everybody is going to turn on Gemma now. She's killed the beloved Tara." And there they all are, with their forks in hand, being very sweet about the whole thing and asking me to sign them. You know, they get it: It’s a television show; it's entertainment.

You, Kurt, and director Paris Barclay already have plans to work together again at FX, on The Bastard Executioner. What can you say about your role?
I can say I'm not quite sure what it is. I'm not quite sure yet. That’s really a Kurt question. I can tell you that the story is awesome. But I don't want to give away too much. I will be a piece of the story, and it is a very good story.

Is there anything you learned from working with your husband on Sons that will change the work dynamic when you work with him again?
We learned a lot in the last seven years. For me, I learned to trust even more. He never let me down, in terms of what he gave me to do. I so appreciate it. He never let the characters down. I probably had more questions at the beginning of the seven years than I had later on. I guess what I learned is that he always told me what I needed to know. If I wanted questions answered that might get me ahead of myself, in the arc of the character? He wasn't going to give that up. That's a great thing. Because if you're playing somebody for that long, you want to stay present with it.

He would tell me the big mile markers. He told me about Tara, and he told me about my own death ahead of time. Whatever he would tell me is what I needed to know. I relaxed more and more with that as we went on.

Is it sad that Gemma died before the finale? Obviously, she's going to continue to be a major presence over everything that will happen in the last episode, but still, is it a little weird that she's not going to be there?
I don't think so. I feel like, you know, ultimately the journey has been Jax's journey. Certainly all of us have played a major part in that, but I think it makes sense that the end of the road focuses on what happens [after Gemma's death], to complete all those storylines. You'll see; the finale will be very satisfying.

The Sons of Anarchy series finale airs Tuesday, Dec. 9 at 10 p.m. on FX.